Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
A example of a thread started in 2008, where the most hated leader of the most hated party had warned about talibanization of the city. We can see even in that thread, that in its 11 pages, people were interested more in abusing and ridiculing that party, rather than listen to the truth he was saying about Taliban.*..... *
Listen and do what? Here's a party that has been in government for decades, also has resisted every effort to deweaponize Karachi, is the largest promoter or terror and violence in the city, thrives on extortion and crime, uses similar violent tactics as taliban, kills Pakistan's security personnel, is a large buyer of weapons from the same suppliers who supply to taliban, talking about talibanization of the city?
When that 'leader' who has for decades made great efforts to create an environment of lawlessness and violence in the city talks about violence from another party, it is not about people believing him or not but people seriously doubt his sincerity for bringing peace to the largest city in Pakistan. It is his concern for losing power to another entity in Karachi and not his sympathy for suffering of common people that makes his statements worthless and ridiculous.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
A recent analogy is TuQ and his long march. The things he was saying and demands he was making made sense. It is the fact that HE was saying those things made all the darama much less credible and almost everyone here ridiculed him.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
Listen and do what? Here's a party that has been in government for decades, also has resisted every effort to deweaponize Karachi, is the largest promoter or terror and violence in the city, thrives on extortion and crime, uses similar violent tactics as taliban, kills Pakistan's security personnel, is a large buyer of weapons from the same suppliers who supply to taliban, talking about talibanization of the city?
When that 'leader' who has for decades made great efforts to create an environment of lawlessness and violence in the city talks about violence from another party, it is not about people believing him or not but people seriously doubt his sincerity for bringing peace to the largest city in Pakistan. It is his concern for losing power to another entity in Karachi and not his sympathy for suffering of common people that makes his statements worthless and ridiculous.
Your list of accusations against MQM is not as long as I expected. Probably you got tired of thinking the stuff.
It is not about "violence from another party". You seem to be pointing towards ANP. It is about Taliban, and it is ridiculous to call Taliban a party.
With the long list of accusations and hateful propaganda in the minds of people, it is not surprising that they don't believe a single word MQM utters. But the truth of MQM's stance when everyone else was rejecting it proves once and for all that MQM is not a party of devil which everyone believes it to be, and that many a times what is says is absolutey true but people don't believe it due to their hatred and narrow mindedness.
Is it really that MQM guys were the only smart enough to foresee the growing influence of Taliban, which now everyone is accepting is the reality? Of course not. Everyone is smart enough but what is missing is the objectivity and ability to see things beyond the narrow-minded prejudice in people's mind.
It is not possible that Pakistani intelligence agencies did not know the presence of Taliban in Karachi and their plans for the future. But they were keeping mum because it was not politically expedient to take any action.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
Your list of accusations against MQM is not as long as I expected. Probably you got tired of thinking the stuff. .....
It is all true and still going on. Independent sources, anecdotal evidence and first hand experiences all confirm what I wrote. Only yesterday did MQM goons beat up doctors in Liaquat National Hospital in Karachi. If you choose to ignore it all, it is your choice. It is neither propaganda nor lies. The truth is that MQM has created an environment in Karachi where it is now beyond law enforcing agencies to keep peace there. They can't do much in this environment if more criminals move over to Karachi. How could they? When they saw each and every police officer involved in cleaning up Karachi was subsequently murdered.
MQM cried because they see competition in taliban. People did not reject the idea but only see the irony where one thug is crying about the other.
P.S. A 'party' doesn't necessarily have to be a political party.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
When mqm started claiming that talebanization of Karachi is taking place, to be very frank I thought it to be a part of the ethnic politics which has been a part of parcel of this party. However if all the stake holders knew that talebanization of the city is taking place and none of them tried to solve the issue, who should we lay the blame on?
who is responsible for this, those who have been at the helm of affairs for the last 10 years or those who didn't believe what mqm was saying.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
Another thing to note is that Altaf Hussain was worried about talebanization if the city since 2008, but still he remained part of the government (for the whole term) which was doing nothing to control the menace.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don’t believe it?
People denied existence of Taleban because they are against Urdu Speaking Community. Are Taleban an ethnic group? Pashtoons? Isn’t there a possibility that some Urdu speaking groups also support ideology of Taleban?
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
Pta ni mujhy kun lgta hy k afghanistan war or waziristan k drone attcks ki wajah sy jo log migrate kr k karachi aye yahan logon ny un ko accept ni kiya.Na rehny k liye un k pas ghar na rozgar ka zariya koi or logon ka rawaya bhe un k against tha nateeja hamary samny hy.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
It is true that some talibanic groups moved to Karachi. They saw the bhatta khori as a good business model and replicated MQM's strategy successfully and is a good source of funding. Now MQM has to share its income with these groups which irks them. I don't think it has anything to do with peace in the city which Bhai says is in his closed fist.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
The dynamics of the city has a role to play in the rise of first anp and then taleban. The migrants to Karachi were genuine refugees (from fata) which would have had some talebanic elements, but the reasons that some Pashtuns gave for joining anp was that they have no choice as they are being killed in the city. The same reason would have forced some to go towards taleban too. Secondly when a turf war is going on a city for controlling it, it's easier to make inroads.
Mqm was right in 2008 that talebanization of the city is taking place, now what's the way out?
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
^ I don't think so, why would or should attack other Pakistanis due to drone attacks? These are all part of power dynamics, different groups wanting to control the country employing fear as a weapon.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
Only Allah knows what's the truth but, i have seen many rikshaw drivers and thely walas who are afghan refugee and despite the fact they are living in pakistan they say bad things about pakistanis and our leaders like Quaid-e-azam.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
No. The most despised community.
but I do agree about your comment on most despised 'party' as well. People hate it more than they hate TTP. This thread is a proof. Even when it is proven that talibanization of karachi is a reality and people are going to suffer under the same conditions as Swat and FATA, people here have shown no sympathy.
Looks like you have joined the ranks of sachaydino and Anwar Pasha who bring Sindh card everytime their bandar-baant govt is in danger. If you are talking about MQM terrorists as "community" then you may be right.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don’t believe it?
This reply caught my eye. I am finding it ridiculous to even reply this post. tsk tsk tsk.
How unfortunate that even you think in such a biased way. And what is even more unfortunate is that even people like you think that someone like me would think this way. What gave people the idea that Taliban’s hateful RELIGIOUS ideology has anything to do with ethnicity?
Now listen. OF COURSE, there are MANY in Urdu speaking people who support Talibanic ideology and Taliban. Remember that Urdu speaking people used to support Jamaat e Islami before MQM, which is pretty close to this pathetic ideology.
And vice versa, Pashtun does not necessarily mean Taliban.
But it is also pathetically ignorant to deny that there are more Taliban in FATA or ilaqa-ghair than any other place in Pakistan. This is a reality. Anyone denying it is telling a BIG lie.
Anyway, you just showed here that you would rather talk about these patty ethnic issues than to focus on the problem which the people of Karachi are facing due to deliberate ignorance of the government and intelligence agencies. And in this sense they share the blame for increase in lawlessness of the city.
Just keep abusing MQM alone instead of showing any worry for the future of the city.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
Looks like you have joined the ranks of sachaydino and Anwar Pasha who bring Sindh card everytime their bandar-baant govt is in danger. If you are talking about MQM terrorists as "community" then you may be right.
I have been a member for several years. If you don't know me even after all these years then ... I am speechless.
I think I can show many examples where people have raised ethnicity issues when the discussion was solely political in nature.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
The dynamics of the city has a role to play in the rise of first anp and then taleban. The migrants to Karachi were genuine refugees (from fata) which would have had some talebanic elements, but** the reasons that some Pashtuns gave for joining anp was that they have no choice as they are being killed in the city. The same reason would have forced some to go towards taleban too**.
I have no problem with people joining ANP. I can understand the concerns and I know there are criminal elements among Urdu speaking. So it is understandable.
But this is not an excuse to JOIN Taliban. And please do keep in mind that Taliban ENFORCING themselves upon Pashtun people is not the same as they JOINING Taliban.
[quote]
Mqm was right in 2008 that talebanization of the city is taking place, now what's the way out?
[/QUOTE]
Well, the government should do the right thing. Create the writ of the government. Get rid of the terrorists.
And ... no negotiations, please.
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
It is true that some talibanic groups moved to Karachi. They saw the bhatta khori as a good business model and replicated MQM's strategy successfully and is a good source of funding. Now MQM has to share its income with these groups which irks them. I don't think it has anything to do with peace in the city which Bhai says is in his closed fist.
How predictable. Just blurt out venom against MQM. The hell with the city. This is what is expected from most people in Pakistan.
One type of terrorist will get rid of another type of terrorist. Right?
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don’t believe it?
My Dear Friend, I’m sorry, but your post is self contradictory in many ways.
You find my question ridiculous and stated that you don’t want to answer, but then again posted this long reply.
You didn’t agree that all followers of Taleban ideology are Pashtoon, but couldn’t resist to mention where Taleban belong (FATA, Ilaq e Ghair)
You just accepted that Urdu speaking people may be followers of Taleban supporters just to make point against Jama’at e Islami
You talk about deliberate ignorance of Government for Karachi issue and easily forget MQM being part of Government. If they are that concerned of the security of Karachi, why they remained part of PPP and supported each and every step of Zardari Government?
Regarding people’s concern for Karachi, just keep in mind that pointing hypocricies of MQM doesn’t mean that one become hater of Urdu speaking community / Karachi city.
Out of this self-conceived, per-decided discussion
Re: Talibanization of Karachi: Still don't believe it?
I have been a member for several years. If you don't know me even after all these years then ... I am speechless.
I think I can show many examples where people have raised ethnicity issues when the discussion was solely political in nature.
Its probably because MQM claimed to be champion of a community but that does not necessarily mean Urdu-speaking=MQM.
People denied existence of Taleban because they are against Urdu Speaking Community. Are Taleban an ethnic group? Pashtoons? Isn’t there a possibility that some Urdu speaking groups also support ideology of Taleban?