Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
^^ these people want to live with bow and arrow and live in caves
their IQ is 10,000 years behind the rest of the world
I really think the Neanderthals could be the Tribals
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
Clearly we have a different set of standards for political personalities legally politiking in Pakistan and scum-of-the-earth outlaws killing our soldiers and civilians on a daily basis.
We did not give you an Islamic basis for saying dont name-call political personalities. And all I am doing here is rejecting, as another poster on the forum, your Islamic basis for argument, since you contradicted it one post later.
If you wish to dispute the distinction between taleban and any political personality theres the feedback forum.
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
Where did I do a name calling?^
Did I call someone DOG or MORON?
Asking about political leader was to get to the reasoning not an endorsment for calling them such... If you notice, I have used the words "rightly so" for people who got banned for doing that :):)
If you wish to dispute the distinction between taleban and any political personality theres the feedback forum.
If an ayah of Quran about name calling can not convince, then I doubt my reasoning in feed back will do any good. At the end of the day, it will be termed WHINNING as usual by you and your teammates.
I have done my job of getting across the message. Have fun!
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
my only interest here was to point out the contradition between the ayat you posted and your subsequent post about those who did heinous stuff like suicide bombings.
take care.
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
you too AQ.
my only interest here was to point out the contradition between the ayat you posted and your subsequent posts.
huh? contradiction?
I am not sure where I contradicted. But if hypothetically I did, does it mean that Allah's command about name calling is not valid anymore????? So your concern was to point fingers at "me" and not understand what was actually being said?
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=5634461&postcount=30
i think ehsan, or atleast I believe that atleast some of the suicide bombings were done by Taleban. Not sure where you stand on that. As per you, Muslims dont do that sort of thing, it is not islamic to do this stuff, which implies the verse concerning name-calling between Muslims doesnt apply.
My personal opinion though is that it does, because suicide bombing may make you a murderer, much as the person would disgust me hes still a Muslim. However, he may a hold a view similar to yours, in which case the ayat doesnt apply.
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
is that a dig at the tribal people or at those miguided by taliban style militants?
^^ these people want to live with bow and arrow and live in caves
their IQ is 10,000 years behind the rest of the world
I really think the Neanderthals could be the Tribals
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
You are free to call any human being as DOG or MORON. I do not see a contradiction in my post; however, I see a great contradiction in calling names to one group of people and giving warning points and banning members if they do the same for another group (political leaders) …
I might be wrong of calling suicide attack as being a NON-MUSLIM act but just because I might be wrong, does not justify that you allow words like “DOG” and “MORON” in this forum. Or may be it does… depending on who is posting it :)?
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
[quote]
however, I see a great contradiction in calling names to one group of people and giving warning points and banning members if they do the same for another group (political leaders) ...
[/quote]
This is why i said the distinction between terrorists and political leaders is a discussion suited to feedback. i dont make policy/rules myself.
[quote]
I might be wrong of calling suicide attack as being a NON-MUSLIM act but just because I might be wrong, does not justify that you allow words like "DOG" and "MORON" in this forum.
[/quote]
Im not sure where you drew the implication that Im saying because you're wrong about suicide attacks being a non Muslim act, those words are okay. Im saying your quranic basis for argument doesnt necessarily hold if one feels the act of ordering or comitting a suicide bombing negates your Muslimness. That is a discussion I can have as a non-mod.
rahi baat why protect political leaders and not terrorists, thats a feedback thing. as to why i let it remain, those words if not addressed to other guppies (whether directly or obliquely) or political personalities, are not obscene, and wouldnt have been removed by me for anyone else either.
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
You are free to call any human being as DOG or MORON. I do not see a contradiction in my post; however, I see a great contradiction in calling names to one group of people and giving warning points and banning members if they do the same for another group (political leaders) ...
I might be wrong of calling suicide attack as being a NON-MUSLIM act but just because I might be wrong, does not justify that you allow words like "DOG" and "MORON" in this forum. Or may be it does... depending on who is posting it :)?
AQ, I think you misunderstand the forbidden of 'name calling' in Islam and the ayah you quoted.
49:11 O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.
Above ayah forbids name calling 'individuals' so that to degrade that person or make fun of that person. Islam also forbids name calling someone with names by associating lies to them (not because of above ayah, but because that is bohtan .. and bohtan is worse then gheebat ... both is forbidden in Islam). For instance, calling someone murderer who is not is against Islam, neither it is allowed to give bad name to someone on basis of assumption is against Islam (both are bohtan) ... or calling someone bad name when what bad they do is hidden from public is also not allowed (as that is undesired in Islam as Allah ask Muslims to cover bad of others) ... or calling someone bad name behind their back is forbidden (it is gheebat).
But that does not mean that an individual especially one that is public figure can not be called by name what they are or what they do (as because of that, many others get effected from their characters and would save themselves from the whim of that person). Neither Islam forbids calling name to a group of people, not for maligning but for revealing truth about them, to show what they are (again, that helps many to know the group, have thought about that group, and if what they are called is true, keep away from that group). Nevertheless, whatever one calls has to have truth in it (lies is again forbidden in Islam).
Example:
Calling names to Groups: A group of people that does obvious shrik, claims openly that they do it and claims (confess openly) that they do not believe on Allah ... like Kuffars (Hindus, Christians who believe on trinity, communists who do not believe on God) can be called Kuffars. A Muslim can call such groups Kafirs and Islam does not forbid that.
Similarly, one can call Muttaffani (fitna maker) those like Taliban and Al-qaida who spread fitna and oppress innocents living around them. Similarly one can call Taliban and Al-Qaida retards as they promote suicide bombing, killing and forcing (with violence) their understanding of religion on others, because by doing such, they show they have no brain to think and thus are retards.
A group of people who from their outer practices used to look like pious Muslims, but from their behaviour toward other Muslims (that was similar to what Taliban and Al-Qaida do) they were not and hence they got known as Khawarjees [people khawrij from Islam ... (Khwariji means exclude) .. or basically non-Muslim].
[Hence a group of pepple can be called what they are]
As for calling names to individuals ... than biggest example in Islam is about:
Abu al-Abbas (first caliph and founder of Abbasid empire) .. who is known as As-Saffah and got that title ... because of his Saffaki (being brutal killer ... slaughterer (After his death, his brother Al-Mansur became next King.
Amongst Muslims, Bilal (RS) got title Habshi because of his being from Habsha (and was black) ... though that title instead of used as degradation is used for Bilal (RA) as credit (shows that Islam do not differentiate between Arabi and Ajami), even though calling someone Habshi is not really a credit. But since it was true ... no one every objected to that.
Allah in Quran called Umar-bin-Hashsham as 'Abu-jahal' because even though he was one of highly educated amongst Quraish and was proud of that, because of his ignorance and arrogance, Allah gave him name Abu-Jahal (father of jahils .. where jahils do not mean illiterate but it means ignorant). Since it was true, it is acceptable.
[Since Bilal (RA), Umar bin Hashsham, Abu al-Abbas are public figures, and whatever they are called is what they were, there is nothing wrong in it. It shows that as long as there is valid proofs, reasons, and consensus about their being what they are, it is fine.]
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
Why is it so hard to wipe them out? Shouldn’t you be wiping them out?
They seem to be growing stronger, some dumbarses they are:halo:
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
is that a dig at the tribal people or at those miguided by taliban style militants?
those misguided by the taliban nazis
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
They are just fighting like fanatics when they know the end is near
Similar way Japan resorted to Kamikaze attacks in 1944 to stop the Americans or when Hitler launched the Battle of the Bulge in December 1944 to wrest victory from the Jaws of defeat
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
I do not disagree much of what you have said, but at the same time, Now, please justify the use of the words DOGS and **MORONS **as well :) I think you also find some TRUTH in such name calling?
AQ, I think you misunderstand the forbidden of 'name calling' in Islam and the ayah you quoted.
49:11 O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.
Above ayah forbids name calling 'individuals' so that to degrade that person or make fun of that person. Islam also forbids name calling someone with names by associating lies to them (not because of above ayah, but because that is bohtan .. and bohtan is worse then gheebat ... both is forbidden in Islam). For instance, calling someone murderer who is not is against Islam, neither it is allowed to give bad name to someone on basis of assumption is against Islam (both are bohtan) ... or calling someone bad name when what bad they do is hidden from public is also not allowed (as that is undesired in Islam as Allah ask Muslims to cover bad of others) ... or calling someone bad name behind their back is forbidden (it is gheebat).
But that does not mean that an individual especially one that is public figure can not be called by name what they are or what they do (as because of that, many others get effected from their characters and would save themselves from the whim of that person). Neither Islam forbids calling name to a group of people, not for maligning but for revealing truth about them, to show what they are (again, that helps many to know the group, have thought about that group, and if what they are called is true, keep away from that group). Nevertheless, whatever one calls has to have truth in it (lies is again forbidden in Islam).
Example: Calling names to Groups: A group of people that does obvious shrik, claims openly that they do it and claims (confess openly) that they do not believe on Allah ... like Kuffars (Hindus, Christians who believe on trinity, communists who do not believe on God) can be called Kuffars. A Muslim can call such groups Kafirs and Islam does not forbid that.
Similarly, one can call Muttaffani (fitna maker) those like Taliban and Al-qaida who spread fitna and oppress innocents living around them. Similarly one can call Taliban and Al-Qaida retards as they promote suicide bombing, killing and forcing (with violence) their understanding of religion on others, because by doing such, they show they have no brain to think and thus are retards.
A group of people who from their outer practices used to look like pious Muslims, but from their behaviour toward other Muslims (that was similar to what Taliban and Al-Qaida do) they were not and hence they got known as Khawarjees [people khawrij from Islam ... (Khwariji means exclude) .. or basically non-Muslim].
[Hence a group of pepple can be called what they are]
As for calling names to individuals ... than biggest example in Islam is about:
Abu al-Abbas (first caliph and founder of Abbasid empire) .. who is known as As-Saffah and got that title ... because of his Saffaki (being brutal killer ... slaughterer (After his death, his brother Al-Mansur became next King.
Amongst Muslims, Bilal (RS) got title Habshi because of his being from Habsha (and was black) ... though that title instead of used as degradation is used for Bilal (RA) as credit (shows that Islam do not differentiate between Arabi and Ajami), even though calling someone Habshi is not really a credit. But since it was true ... no one every objected to that.
Allah in Quran called Umar-bin-Hashsham as 'Abu-jahal' because even though he was one of highly educated amongst Quraish and was proud of that, because of his ignorance and arrogance, Allah gave him name Abu-Jahal (father of jahils .. where jahils do not mean illiterate but it means ignorant). Since it was true, it is acceptable.
[Since Bilal (RA), Umar bin Hashsham, Abu al-Abbas are public figures, and whatever they are called is what they were, there is nothing wrong in it. It shows that as long as there is valid proofs, reasons, and consensus about their being what they are, it is fine.]
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
I do not disagree much of what you have said, but at the same time, Now, please justify the use of the words DOGS and **MORONS **as well :) I think you also find some TRUTH in such name calling?
Yeap. Talibans should be called Kuffars and Mushrikins. As only Kuffars and Mushrikins can suicide bomb mosques, courts, schools, and kill innocent Muslims.
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
Yeap. Talibans should be called Kuffars and Mushrikins. As only Kuffars and Mushrikins can suicide bomb mosques, courts, schools, and kill innocent Muslims.
Isn't this accepted by Pakistan's leadership as being okay? Leaders such as Zia, BB and NS and even Musharraf?
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
They are just fighting like fanatics when they know the end is near
Similar way Japan resorted to Kamikaze attacks in 1944 to stop the Americans or when Hitler launched the Battle of the Bulge in December 1944 to wrest victory from the Jaws of defeat
Except the Kamikaze died within a short span of time...
Its been milleniums and these people in this region have not been "wiped" out.
Good luck though :)
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
As valid as the discussion on name calling is (truly, really, and most sincerely), can you guys stop acting like 5 year olds with 2 min attention spans and actually talk about the topic at hand?
I don't even want to hear a reply of protest to this request. If you feel the need to reply back, just PM me your garbage, and meanwhile, let the rest of us read some relevant responses. Thanks.
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
Except the Kamikaze died within a short span of time...
Its been milleniums and these people in this region have not been "wiped" out.
Good luck though :)
we got better weapons today :)
Re: Taliban factions unite to battle Pakistan
Abh me kya kahoon.