Again you are going off on a tangent, Burqa.
Lets talk about conditions of minorities in both countries today. I am really interested in learning about minority success stories in Pakistan.
Tangent?
Hahaha.
Why don't you give us "success stories" of Punjabi Muslims in Indian Punjab. You should be an expert on this topic (especially considering your pen name at least).
As a Punjabee, you should be able to provide the REAL stats from the state (and now tehsil) of Malir Kotla.
This is region STILL dominated by Punjabi Muslims. Even though the rest of the Indian Punjab was wiped out of Muslims in the dark months of 1947 (July, August, September, and October).
Similarly Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs were wiped out from W. Punjab during the SAME period.
However Indians were a little bit better as the Muslims in Malir Kotla were spared from the hellfire of 1947.
Burqa,
Are you sure there any Muslims left in east Punjab. My father is from Haryana, and other then the Meos in Gurgaon, who were prevented by the Pakistan government from going there, all the Muslims left. The condition of the Meos is truelly terrible, with there lands taken over and given to the Dalits. The Muslims of Gurgaon (it was 80% Muslim in 1941) town, who were mainly Syeds and Shaikhs also left for Pakistan. The Indian government took over this deserted town and gave it to Punjabi Hindus. And i must say this refugees have done well and turned Gurgaon in the tech capital of India.
So I would be really surprised if there are any Muslims left in East Punjab.
Yes there are. Malekotla was an oasis, and island of peace and harmony during the dreadful months of 1947 (July, Aug, Sept…).
**
Here is a relatively unbiased source that puts Muslim population in Malerkotla as 70%.
But do not take this news item by its title (it is misleading). the misery was caused by the closure of the border. But Muslims in Malerkotla are SAFE and GROWING.
**
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Muslims look to end misery of separation
some historical facts (not authenticated, so take it with a grain of salt).
And some interesting forum discussion (again take it with a grain of salt)
The bottom line is:
Panjabee Muslims in E. Punjab survived at least in Malerkotla.
Unfortunately for the rest of the E. Punjab, the number of Punjabi Muslim = zero
However sadly!
Non-Muslim Punjabis in Pak Punjab = zero.
except - a small Sikh population around holy sites such as: Nankana Sahib, and Gurudawar Punja sahib.
================
In summary - let me reiterate-
It is absolutely necessary for Paks to practice Iqra!
Otherwise they will continue believing in rumors and lies.
Oh by the way, I won’t count Gourgaon as true blue Punjabi “heartland” town. It is just a suburb of Delhi.
Tangent?
Hahaha.
Why don't you give us "success stories" of Punjabi Muslims in Indian Punjab. You should be an expert on this topic (especially considering your pen name at least).
Why are you so interested in only Punjabi Muslims in Indian Punjab ? Why ignore the Muslims in rest of India ??
Here you go, Burqa 
Except for Bobby Jindal, the rest are all Muslims.
Famous people from Malerkotla
Malerkotla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now, coming back to the topic - can you show me some minority success stories in Pakistan ?
Why are you so interested in only Punjabi Muslims in Indian Punjab ? Why ignore the Muslims in rest of India ??
Funny that a so called Punjabee would be so oblivious to the situation in the subcontinent. And continue asking weird questions.
Oh Bhai,
you are so prejudiced against Pakistan that you refuse to see the light that is right in front of your nose.
You cannot show rich and well do Punjabee Muslims from the Main E. Punjab for a reason. They were all forced out or killed.
Similarly no one can show rich and well do Hindus from W. Punjab because they were all killed or forced out.
That's precisely why it is IMPORTANT to do a controlled study if you want to compare apples to apples. Got it?
There is a lot of ignorance on both sides of the border. And you my friend refuse to learn.
Simple Googling without a will to study the details is childish at best.
p.s. Malerkotla is an exception to the rule. It had nothing to do with government of India or the Punjabee Hindus.
So don't start rattling off numbers and figures. That is outside the controlled group aka major cities of Punjab on both sides of the border.
Re: Taliban abducts, beheads Sikhs in Peshawar
^ LOL...so many words and yet no answer to my question, Burqa :)
I rest my case...
^ LOL...so many words and yet no answer to my question, Burqa :)
I rest my case...
Yes sure.
Rest your cASe after quoting Boby Jindal (A governor in a the USA for the state of Louisiana) as a success story of Punjabi Muslims from Amritsar!.
Hahahahhahahah.
Desperation! Desperation!
Oh the Desperation to google and cut and paste without ever reading a word or understanding the context discussion.
Such a shame that you could (wrongly) be counted among the educated and intellectual Indian posters like BeHind, Yamaha and IPOD.
Re: Taliban abducts, beheads Sikhs in Peshawar
a great shame for all Pakistanis...
these Taliban animals need to be destroyed. they're trying to destroy the state.
Burqa,
Are you sure there any Muslims left in east Punjab. My father is from Haryana, and other then the Meos in Gurgaon, who were prevented by the Pakistan government from going there, all the Muslims left. The condition of the Meos is truelly terrible, with there lands taken over and given to the Dalits. The Muslims of Gurgaon (it was 80% Muslim in 1941) town, who were mainly Syeds and Shaikhs also left for Pakistan. The Indian government took over this deserted town and gave it to Punjabi Hindus. And i must say this refugees have done well and turned Gurgaon in the tech capital of India.
So I would be really surprised if there are any Muslims left in East Punjab.
Please google and see the Indian Sensus report 2000. (You can get even district wise population) You can See that the Panjabi Muslim Population is not zero but they are almost 5% (East Punjab includes Haryana ,himajal and punjab states). Also India do not curb the freedom of any minority. See the Muslim population is almost 18% now. I am not going to compare the state of Hindus/Sikhs in Pakistan as it will expose the Pakistani people and your "Islam". Dont be misguided by one Gujarat and One Babri. Think yourself that if you would allow a church/Synagogue near Mekka. But you can see mosques in Ayodhya,Mathura,Baneras (the most imortant Hindu pilgrimage centres.). In southrn state of Kerala there is one world famous Temple "Guruvayur" It is famous even before AD 500. But majority of its population is now Muslims. In Kerala Muslims increased from 15% in 1947 to 26% in 2000. In India You can see all these things because Hindu Culture is not fanatic. It will try to absorb all type of cultures. Still you people think and acts against this!!! .You are not taking any action against the wild fanatsy of Mullahs to either convert all the non Muslims to Muslims or kill those Kaffirs.
Yes sure.
Rest your cASe after quoting Boby Jindal (A governor in a the USA for the state of Louisiana) as a success story of Punjabi Muslims from Amritsar!.
Hahahahhahahah.
Desperation! Desperation!
Oh the Desperation to google and cut and paste without ever reading a word or understanding the context discussion.
Such a shame that you could (wrongly) be counted among the educated and intellectual Indian posters like BeHind, Yamaha and IPOD.
In your hurry to refute PIU, you dont even bother to read his post. He has clearly mentioned that Bobby Jindal is not a muslim. BP I really expected better from you...
I think it is time that we let go of what happened in 47 and move. People who were affected by these riots have moved on. It is time to look at the present situation and comment.
Dude, there are many Muslims living in the posh areas of Mumbai eg. Malabar Hill, Cuffe Parade etc. India has had multiple Muslim presidents & other "elected" leaders.
And what was Pakistan's record again ?
thousands of muslims burnt alive, butchered , raped in mumbai, gujrat, and other towns and you are telling us minorities are not safe in pakistan.
Christian churches burnt , nun and padres killed.
becoming of narendar modis CM of gujrat again what does it tell you, dont tell me he wasnt involved or its just democracy yes it but its show blood of minorities doesnt worth a thing, please get out of shell you arent living in heaven where everyone is safe.
[QUOTE]
Big companies like Wockhardt & Wipro were started and are led by Muslims. Indian cricket team had/has Muslims players, and Muslims are immensely popular Bollywood actors loved by audience across religions.
[/QUOTE]
yes wipro owner was muslim and there are muslim celebrities by the way we also have hindu players as well and had hindu actresses as well.
and as for business is concerned if you move through province of sindh this is where most of the hindus live they own small businesses to larger factories all around and on food stuff market they are the kings as most of the community concentrates on trading .
as for muslim becoming the president it does signify but doest change the reality it simply what is offered to them but doesnt guarantee they get that as society is more important.
for your information my father was a government employee and i have grown to see my fathers superiors being hindus throughout his career. our civil service was dominated by hindus i have seen many heads of institutions who were hindus or from minorities and were of highest character recent example is Justice bhagwandas who was chief justice of supreme court and these days serving as head of federal public service commision equivalent to indian ICS i guess.
yes they are not in politics partially because laws introduced by zia and partially because they are more business minded.
now coming to mumbai.
yes they may be owning house in malabar hills most probably malabar hills historically was multi ethic area.
i never said they cant buy a house but what i said they arent free to choose the area which makes a lot of difference this is what happened in shabana azmis case and probably saif ali khan as well and by they way they were bollywood superstars , one can watch them on tv fancy them but its another thing having them as neighbour.
Here you go, Burqa :) Except for Bobby Jindal, the rest are all Muslims.
Famous people from Malerkotla
A few points...Begum Aizaz Rasul only had an ancestral connection to Maler Kotla; her family lived in Lahore, and she had been married off into a prominent UP family well before Partition. Saeed Jaffery left India after Partition, and settled in the UK/US. These people don't really count towards the point you're trying to make. In any case, they're all from Maler Kotla, the one island within East Punjab that was, for historical reasons, spared from the ethnic cleansing that occured in the rest of the state.
Now, coming back to the topic - can you show me some minority success stories in Pakistan ?
I'm sure explaining these things to bigots like yourself is an exercise in futility, but why not?
I won't even bother listing the MPs and Ministers of Minority Affairs. Nor will I bother listing sports players, though there are several, including Danish Kaneria.
**Alvin Robert Cornelius - **Roman Catholic; served as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan from 1960-1968.
**Dorab Patel - **Parsee; former Chief Justice of the Sind High Court; Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan 1976-1981; founding member of the Asian Human Rights Commission and the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan.
**Rana Chandra Singh - **Prominent Pakistani politician; founding member of the PPP; at various points in his career served as Minister of Science and Technology, Minister of Revenue, Minister of Narcotics Affairs, Minister for Agriculture and Revenue, and Chairman of National Commission of Minorities.
**Jamsheed Marker - **Parsee; veteran diplomat who holds the world record as longest serving ambassador, and ambassador to more countries than any other person; has represented Pakistan in Ghana, Romania, the USSR, Canada, East Germany, Japan, West Germany, France, US, the UN at Geneva, and the UN at NYC, among others; during his tenure as ambassador to Washington, helped negotiate the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan.
**Sobho Gianchandani - **Hindu, prominent communist social scientist; noted Sindhi author; first non-Urdu writer to be awarded Pakistan's top literary prize, the Kamil-e-Fan award for lifetime acheivement.
Group Captain (ret.) Cecil Chaudhry - Christian; decorated officer of the Pakistani Air Force; awarded the Sitara-e-Jurrat; now an educationalist with the Punjab Education Foundation.
**Indu Mitha - **Hindu; professor at the National College of the Arts; bharatnatayam expert.
**Byram Dinshawji Avari - **Parsee; owner of the Avari Group, one of Pakistan's largest companies, best known for its chain of luxury hotels in Pakistan & Dubai.
*Amar Lal *- Hindu; Federal Minister and special advisor to the PM for madarsa reform.
**Ardeshir Cowasjee - **Parsee; prominent newspaper columnist, socialite and philanthropist; chaiman of the Cowasjee Group, the oldest shipping company in Pakistan.
**Rana Bhagwandas - **Hindu; Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan from 2000-2007; three tenures as acting Chief Justice of Pakistan; currently Chairman of Federal Public Service Commission of Pakistan.
Deepak Perwani - Hindu; Prominent fashion designer, recently invited to show his collection at Milan Fashion Week.
Suneeta Marshall - Christian; one of Pakistan's most famous fashion models and actresses.
a great shame for all Pakistanis...
these Taliban animals need to be destroyed. they're trying to destroy the state.
what you would say about narendar modi sitting as CM gujrat, thackrays family.
thank god atleast we cant have animals like them wining elections.
In your hurry to refute PIU, you dont even bother to read his post. He has clearly mentioned that Bobby Jindal is not a muslim. BP I really expected better from you...
I think it is time that we let go of what happened in 47 and move. People who were affected by these riots have moved on. It is time to look at the present situation and comment.
Off course we should quit using 1947 to continue spreading hate between Pak and Ind.
However ignoring a fact for "scientific" and "statistical" purpose is just A-OK. And if you notice, that by looking at these facts, we can REDUCE hatred and blame game.
I hope you get the message.
We must look at 1947 and see that modern day Pakistan had total annihilation of non-Muslims educated and business elite.
And the same thing happened in E. Punjab (except a small region of Malerkotla).
So anyone looking at total absence of Hindu business elite in Lahore, must compare it to the lack of Muslim elite in major E. Punjabi cities like Jalandhar.
Using a southi PremJi to look for Hindu elite in Lahore is simply ridiculous and statistically unsound.
However many Indis refuse to the see the light, because they learn to hate Pak and criticize Pak as part of their mother's milk (mother India that is).
However many Indis refuse to the see the light, because they learn to hate Pak and criticize Pak as part of their mother's milk (mother India that is).
Disagree completely please go back on this thread and read about pakistani textbooks what i cited. Indies learn pakistani hatred from the jihadis pakistan sends armed into our mainland. Otherwise absolutely nothing.
On the contrary majority pakistanis learn minority hatred in the government textbooks, jihadi mosques, madrasas and moulvis..The knowledge of pakistan that indians pick up on streets to me holds still better authenticity than the textbook messages in pakistani textbooks I have mentioned already.
The leaders, while praising the contributions of Chowdhary Yasin Khan to the freedom struggle and to the society, especially the Meo community, urged the people to follow his ideals and preachings.Chowdhary Yasin Khan is known for his contributions in the field of education for the Meos. Also, he is considered to be one of the stalwarts to champion the cause of secularism. With the support of Mahatma Gandhi he was instrumental in persuading the Meos of Haryana and Rajasthan not to migrate to Pakistan at the time of Partition. He had brought Mahatma Gandhi to village Ghaseda in the Mewat area of Haryana in 1947 to give a call to the Meo Muslims against their decision to migrate to Pakistan. Along with Sir Chhotu Ram, he also worked for the welfare of the farmers in Haryana.
what you would say about narendar modi sitting as CM gujrat, thackrays family.
thank god atleast we cant have animals like them wining elections.
What Thackerey family has done...has they trained people to blow them up in public? You have wild animals like Hafeez and TTP guyz roaming in your society and killing innocent civilians. So, come again...
Re: Taliban abducts, beheads Sikhs in Peshawar
^They have instead trained people to burn, loot and rape. Number of sikhs killed by Taliban is not even a fraction of number muslims killed by hindus in Gujarat, go eat your own...
^They have instead trained people to burn, loot and rape. Number of sikhs killed by Taliban is not even a fraction of number muslims killed by hindus in Gujarat, go eat your own...
What? Did you go there and see when training was being given? Stop dreaming.
So, you now are talking about fractions and numbers. You think it is a numbers game. Go and google around, you will come to know how many innocent lives including muslims were taken by muslims. In Gujarat, both hindus and muslims were killed. I do not have to say who burned innocent lives first. Go and look after your own things.