"Talaq, Talaq, Talaq"...is it over?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Salam-a-lekum all,

I was just wondering how easy it is to just say Talaq , Talaq, Talaq three times and destroy a female life within few seconds.
How did these weird mullahs came up with this rule about giving divorce?
Does it make sense? No. Not at all.
Shouldn’t the girl be given right to say something regarding separation?
Well, how about if she is not happy with the guy and the guy is abusive. Shoudnt she be given right to initiate divorce( qulah)?

There is a big flaw here.

“So whats the solution?”

Shouldnt “talaq” (divorce) be a written document signed by both male and female in the presence of wakeels (witnesses)before proceeding for talaq?
Shouldnt the female be given time to express her feelings and “facts”?
Shouldnt the female be able to initiate “talaq” (divorce/qulah) if the guy is being physically abusive and torturing her?
My readers might be surprised to find that all these three conditions for divorce are “being followed by the followers of Imam Jafar Sadiq (a.s) only”. Thats why its so hard to give talaq there.

Just Sharing info,not forcing anybody to do anything. Just ask yourself the question, whats right and whats not?

your brother,
Humble.

2

Salam,

Any comments? And I am talking about constructive comments, here.

I have figured it out so far that its the cream of good minds here. So I am expecting some comments from you guys.:
Cool Dude?
Shakir?
Faceup?
Zman?
Black Beauty?
Girl from Quresh?
Malik 73?

Sorry if I forgot some name.

Humble.

3

Salaam borther Humble!
I totally agree with you. The girl should definitely have a saying on this matter. Where do you think these mullah come up with this from? Does anything like this exist in the hadith? I am not that well versed in hadith. Maybe you could shed some light on this.

Allah Hafiz.

4

Salam-a-lekum br. Shakir,

First of all I hope you are doing great. Its been a while reading a response from you.

**
The method of Talaq adopted by the Mullahs and implemented by majority of Muslims is NOT mentioned anywhere in ahadith. Also, it does not make sense to just say "Talaq, talaq, talaq", to the wife and destroy everything within seconds. We are all human, therefore the husband can be in a state of anger at that time and therefore may say talaq three times, but it "Should Not" be considered enough for talaq. It is a big fiqahi flaw.
As I mentioned the only fiqah among Muslims that "Does Not" allow that kind of divorce is "Fiqah-e-Jafaria (followers of Imam Jafar Sadiq a.s)".

In fiqah-e-jafaria:
**The written document of talaq (divorce) is needed and it should be signed by both female and male (acceptance of both is required)
**There is the condition of having witness from both sides
**The wife can dispute the validity of facts and question husband.
**The wife can initiate talaq (divorce/qulah) if she is being physically abused or tortured.
**The wife is given a right to express any concern, feelings, facts before proceeding

***It is because of this reason that divorce rate among Fiqah-e-jafaria Muslims is less. Its very tough and considered makrooh (not liked) action to give divorce.

**

Your brother,
Humble.

5

[al-Baqarah 2:229] Divorce must be pronounced twice and then (a woman) must be retained in honour or released in kindness. And it is not lawful for you that ye take from women aught of that which ye have given them; except (in the case) when both fear that they may not be able to keep within the limits (imposed by) Allah. And if ye fear that they may not be able to keep the limits of Allah, in that case it is no sin for either of them if the woman ransom herself. These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Transgress them not. For whoso transgresseth Allah's limits: such are wrong-doers.

[al-Baqarah 2:230] And if he hath divorced her (the third time), then she is not lawful unto him thereafter until she hath wedded another husband. Then if he (the other husband) divorce her it is no sin for both of them that they come together again if they consider that they are able to observe the limits of Allah. These are the limits of Allah. He manifesteth them for people who have knowledge.

i hope you got ur answer....straight from the book....

6

It is not just the men that can initiate divorce in Islam, women have just as much right. Consider the following Ayats:

**[2:226]
226. Those who take an oath not to have sexual relation with their wives must wait four months, then if they return (change their idea in this period), verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[2:227]
227. And if they decide upon divorce, then Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

[2:228]
228. And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses, etc.) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect, etc.) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allah is All- Mighty, All-Wise.**

And while divorce is happening, both Husband and Wife have certain rights over each other:

**[2:228]
228. And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses, etc.) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect, etc.) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allah is All- Mighty, All-Wise.

[2:229]
229. The divorce is twice, after that, either you retain her on reasonable terms or release her with kindness. And it is not lawful for you (men) to take back (from your wives) any of your Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) which you have given them, except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah (e.g. to deal with each other on a fair basis). Then if you fear that they would not be able to keep the limits ordained by Allah, then there is no sin on either of them if she gives back (the Mahr or a part of it) for her Al-Khul’ (divorce). These are the limits ordained by Allah, so do not transgress them. And whoever transgresses the limits ordained by Allah, then such are the Zalimun (wrong-doers, etc.)**

And you cannot mistreat your wife:

**[2:231]
231. And when you have divorced women and they have fulfilled the term of their prescribed period, either take them back on reasonable basis or set them free on reasonable basis. But do not take them back to hurt them, and whoever does that, then he has wronged himself. And treat not the Verses (Laws) of Allah as a jest, but remember Allah’s Favours on you (i.e. Islam), and that which He has sent down to you of the Book (i.e. the Qur’an) and Al-Hikmah (the Prophet’s Sunnah - legal ways - Islamic jurisprudence, etc.) whereby He instructs you. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is All-Aware of everything.

[2:236]
236. There is no sin on you, if you divorce women while yet you have not touched (had sexual relation with) them, nor appointed unto them their Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage). But bestow on them ( a suitable gift), the rich according to his means, and the poor according to his means, a gift of reasonable amount is a duty on the doers of good.**

There are many iyats here, but please read them, they are Allahs words

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

7

Humble i have only 1 thing to say to you.
Read the Quran.
What you have written is crap.
None of it is anywhere what the quran says.

CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

8

To cm,
I never asked for any comments from you weirdo because I know your mental level and your limited knowledge and dont call it crap.

**
The things i mentioned in my post are all "facts" and I have cases to prove that. I know its hard to digest it but "truth really hurts", specially if its a bitter one!
**

**
Brother Cool Dude,
Thanks for your feedback and input. Your feedback is always welcome because you are quite understanding and you "do not ask or comment to abuse others", you always keep some room for constructive arguments while you post. Thanks.
**

Humble.

9

Brother Cool Dude,

**
I really appreciate your input here and totally agree with what you quoted from qUran (obviously), but the question still remains here,
"Where is it mentioned in quran to say talaq, talaq, talaq three times and its over?"
Dont you think its unfair for the wife to not even get a chance to express her feelings or get a chance to bring up the facts. The facts might be different than what the husband tells. I know a couple who ended up with a situation like this.
**

Your brother,
Humble.

Be Constructive and humble!

[This message has been edited by Humble (edited September 14, 2000).]

10

I think in that situation, an islamic judge or leader needs to intervene.

I know in Iran they have a court where the husband and wife can put forward their arguments.. seems to work well.

11

Sure Cool Dude,

Good idea. We can implement that. Also, another factor is:
"Wife and husband should be given some more time to reconsider and reconcile before legally (religiously) proceeding for talaq."

Dont you think it will save some more families to face the talaq tradegy?

your brother,
Humble

12

Sister Mehak,
I'd appreciate your input here as well. I'm sorry I forgot to mention as one among the best minds here on this forum.

Humble

13

*
This is an important issue raised here. I really like your solutions brother Humble and Cool dude. It is so good to see youths doing such good research.
*

Wassalam,
Ajmal!

14

Dear Humble!

asalaam o alaykum!

I have read few of your posts on these boards. I am not a regular visitor thou. What you have alluded to re talaq in Fiqah e Ja'fria may be correct and those who utter talaq three times, in one breath are no doubt depraved but there is no dearth of those who have gone astray in any sect, be it Sunnies or Ja'fria. I don;t think anyone in Fiqah Ja'fria suggest beating oneself relentlessly, as exhibited during the Muharam. But unfortunately it goes on by many.

Oh by the way the guppie face you are using is mine! but be my guest!

15

There is a valid point raised by Humble Jee here. It bothered me too.

Thanks Humble Jee.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

16

Humble, in Islam, a woman has as much rights as a man when it comes to divorce. The laws concerning divorce are in the Quran and any
“wierd mullah” (as u call them) has no right to say otherwise. You might want to look at this article on divorce http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_comparison_full.htm#_Toc335566663

17

Salam-a-lekum all,

Sister Hk and Sister pakigurya,
Jazakallah for your comments. Positive criticism and Good feedback is always welcome. I appreciate it!

Brother baykathr,
First of all sorry for choosing “your guppy face”

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

. I really appreciate your feedback too because you sound quite reasonable “unlike” Nanga and some others.
Also, the issue here is “Divorce”, Not Muharram. So, lets focus on this issue. We can certainly talk about Muharram later when it arrives.
Thanks for your feedback here.

your brother,
Humble.

18

That is a very informative article, thanks!

I recommend you all read the bit about Islam

19

Sure brother Cool Dude,
I really like your approach. You always try to come up with genuine questions and your vision is not limited. You will find the truth someday, keep searching, you are almost there

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

:k

Take Care bro,
Humble

20

I wonder why sister Black beauty never gave any thoughts here. Well, anyways, just curious!