Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
^ They were convicted in Swiss Courts, and then NRO came along.
The Swiss conviction had nothing to do with Pakistan or Pakistani law. If they were going to be convicted it had to do with violations of Swiss laws & NRO deals would not have overturned their conviction.
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
They were NOT declared innocent
You're innocent unless proven guiltily & not the other way around.
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
The Swiss conviction had nothing to do with Pakistan or Pakistani law. If they were going to be convicted it had to do with violations of Swiss laws & NRO deals would not have overturned their conviction.
They were convicted in Swiss Courts, after which they filed an appeal which set aside the conviction. The hearing of the case began which was not followed up by BB/Zardari. After NRO a letter was sent to Switzerland to quash the case.
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
You're innocent unless proven guiltily & not the other way around.
Ideally what ever you are saying is right, but applying this logic in Pakistan even Malik Ishaq, Ajmal Pahari and Hakeem ullah Mehsud are also innocents as they have not been convicted by any court of law. Pakistan is a funny country where people can be jailed for years for stealing one thousand rupees where as the persons looting billions become the rulers. There is a reason why Pakistan is going down a steep downward trajectory.
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
They were convicted in Swiss Courts, after which they filed an appeal which set aside the conviction. The hearing of the case began which was not followed up by BB/Zardari. After NRO a letter was sent to Switzerland to quash the case.
Lol you can't be convicted in civil lawsuits. The govt of Pakistan was suing them for stealing state wealth in a Swiss court. The court initially found that they could not explain their wealth, and decided in favor GoP & it was overturned on appeal. After that GoP refused to further pursue the case thus appeals courts decision stays, ie they will not face any civil penalties. Since then statute of limitations has expired and appeal courts decision is final.
So, now please explain to me how were they convicted?
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
Sad part is, instead of disgracing the criminal sitting in the presidency, folks here are mocking the Supreme Court and Chief Justice. Yes, the CJ was misguided in his approach, but it was not wrong to go after the biggest criminal in Pakistan.
You continue to see Iftikhar as a champion of justice and Zardari an epitome of corruption and evil.
you are misguided. Iftikhar is after Zardari only because of his political affiliation with Nawaz and jihadis, and his hatred of PPP.
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
Merey bhai, why do you insist on something that is factually incorrect?
They were NOT declared innocent. They filed an appeal.....and by law, when anyone files an appeal, the judgement from the trial court is suspended while the appeals court goes through the case again. This does NOT mean that the initial judgement was incorrect. It simply means that we are giving you another chance to defend yourself.
But guess what? Benazir and Zardari fled after filing an appeal. They never showed up to defend themselves in the appeals court, thus leaving the case in limbo. And then came the NRO.
Quit defending criminals.
You are beating about the bush. Are you afraid that this will boost and a great issue for PPP and Zardari in the coming elections, once proving victimization and singling out on one political party?
CJ himself proved corrupt when he did not take any action against his proved corrupt son?
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
You're innocent unless proven guiltily & not the other way around.
Sigh..
I will repeat again. They were found GUILTY.
They appealed, so the initial judgement of guilt was automatically suspended. The right to appeal is accorded to everyone, even a murderer on death row. An appeal does not overturn the trial court verdict. It merely sets it aside until the appeals court verdict comes through.
Benazir and Zardari were convicted. They appealed, hence the sentences were set aside. The duo never came forward to defend themselves in the appeals court. If the NRO had not come along, their absence would have caused them to have been automatically convicted once again by the appeals court.
This bland statement by the Swiss, which was already expected, will not in any way boost Zardari and PPPs standing. PPP has a better chance by resurrecting the issue of Benazir's death. Expect them to swing out some sort of a dead body card sooner or later.
CJ removed himself from his son's case, and the case was thrown out by the commission formed to investigate the issue. But then again, you are speaking for Malik Riaz's, who happens to be Bilawal's godfather.
The response of the swiss was not unexpected, and I am pretty sure that this is not the complete answer the swiss gave. The letter that was sent to the swiss was not to reopen Zardari's case. It was to rescind the letter that Justice Qayum had earlier sent to them, regarding the NRO, but the PPP law minister has selectively stated a line that will sell politically.
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
Zardari bach gaya !
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
I wonder if we are talking of the same Benazir and Zardari, because you are continually making non-factual claims.
It was not a civil suit. It was a criminal case. Benazir and Zardari were convicted of bribery and money laundering (both are crimes) by the Swiss courts. They were sentenced to 6 months in jail. There is no jail in civil suits. The decision was overturned when they filed an appeal, which is standard practice. NRO and immunity gave them eventual protection.
http://star.worldbank.org/corruption-cases/node/18731
Benazir and Zardari got away with a crime. No 2 questions about it. You can rejoice in the fact that they got away, but dont pretend that they were innocent, or hide behind false impressions that ‘they were not convicted’, or*** ‘it was a civil case’***
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
There was no conviction for any crime . They were sentenced for not appearing in the court . Later this sentence was termed as null after their perusing . You can not call that conviction at all .
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
You continue to see Iftikhar as a champion of justice and Zardari an epitome of corruption and evil. you are misguided. Iftikhar is after Zardari only because of his political affiliation with Nawaz and jihadis, and his hatred of PPP.
I appreciate what CJ has done for the judiciary, but Im not his biggest fan. He has made quite a few missteps, no doubt. But this was not one of them.
You are talking on the basis of your political affiliation/alliance, so its not a surprise to see you talk down CJ and Nawaz Sharif, while defending PPP, courtesy of their alliance with MQM. For once, step out of that domain, and call a spade a spade.
If Zardari has been clean, if Benazir has been clean, if NS has been clean, then which prick has been doing all this corruption all these years?
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
There was no conviction for any crime . They were sentenced for not appearing in the court . Later this sentence was termed as null after their perusing . You can not call that conviction at all .
When you bring your head up from your sajda to BB and Zardari long enough, you will realize that they had an attorney representing them, who fought on their behalf. They did not have to appear personally. However, during the appeals court, they were called in, which they never responded to. That part of the case was going on, before the NRO came to rescue them. They couldnt have been expected to show up, the cowards that they were.
As for your no-conviction joke, read the 'Stolen Asset Recovery Initiative' of the World Bank that I quoted above. Benazir and Zardari are criminals, who hid behind an NRO and immunity. They got away with it, and lived to tell about it.......the perfect crime.
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
When you bring your head up from your sajda to BB and Zardari long enough, you will realize that they had an attorney representing them, who fought on their behalf. They did not have to appear personally. However, during the appeals court, they were called in, which they never responded to. That part of the case was going on, before the NRO came to rescue them. They couldnt have been expected to show up, the cowards that they were. As for your no-conviction joke, read the 'Stolen Asset Recovery Initiative' of the World Bank that I quoted above. Benazir and Zardari are criminals, who hid behind an NRO and immunity. They got away with it, and lived to tell about it.......the perfect crime.
You are joking with yourself . Most of cases were false , fabricated by establishment , NS also admitted that fact in an interview . Without knowing conditions and complications of our system , your few strokes on your computer can not declare our leaders criminals who fought till their life with the real criminals , the dogs who conquered the country with their guns , The real looters who not only looting national money but also more depending on CIA money . The slaves of US since the time of Liaqat Ali Khan and the people who have thousand years history of being puppet of invaders . The soil who could never born one famous with good character .
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
Zardari bach gaya !
That is what expected from you, drect moderator.
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
Sigh..
This bland statement by the Swiss, which was already expected, will not in any way boost Zardari and PPPs standing. PPP has a better chance by resurrecting the issue of Benazir's death. Expect them to swing out some sort of a dead body card sooner or later.
CJ removed himself from his son's case, and the case was thrown out by the commission formed to investigate the issue. But then again, you are speaking for Malik Riaz's, who happens to be Bilawal's godfather.
The response of the swiss was not unexpected, and I am pretty sure that this is not the complete answer the swiss gave. The letter that was sent to the swiss was not to reopen Zardari's case. It was to rescind the letter that Justice Qayum had earlier sent to them, regarding the NRO, but the PPP law minister has selectively stated a line that will sell politically.
Then you don't know abc of Paki politics. It can be big issue in the coming elections. If that was expected, was CJ dumb to make a foolish decision which cause huge amount of money to the poor people of Pakistan. If IK can bear the costs, I have no objection for CJ's continuation otherwise he should resign "agar us main ratti barabar sharam hay".
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
I can't wait for the CJ to take somoto against the Swiss authorities. :D Sometime I wonder if this guy knows anything about law all all. He could have just googled immunity from prosecution for sitting heads of states & would've known that Swiss were not going to prosecute Zardari. His orders were unenforceable, and for causing embarrassment to the country & hurting prestige of the court, he should be removed & disbarred.
CJ has three option:
Suo Mota against Swiss authorities :) Chaudhry Sahib zara try karkay to dekhlain.:D
Payment of expenses on this case and Resign
3.Chilu bhar paani jaa kar dhoob maray
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
You are joking with yourself . Most of cases were false , fabricated by establishment , NS also admitted that fact in an interview . Without knowing conditions and complications of our system , your few strokes on your computer can not declare our leaders criminals who fought till their life with the real criminals ,
Your emotional speech brings a tear to my eye. May your leige lord always be safe in his bullet proof castle in Bahria town
Now for some common sense. The case fabricated by Nawaz Sharif was the one in Pakistan that was presided by Justice Qayuum, not the one in Switzerland. The case in Switzerland was run by the Swiss Attorney General! Are you telling me that the swiss AG got paid off by NS govt in order to force him to find Zardari and BB guilty?
One final time, though I know that you refuse to read the facts, and remain in your sajda....but the Nawaz Sharif case was filed in Pakistan, and run under Justice Qayuum's court. That case had flaws, everyone knows that, because PPP and PML-N have been partners in crime from day 1.
The case in Switzerland was investigated and run by the Swiss AG, where these 2 criminals refused to show up becuase of their guilt, and hired an attorney instead. They were convicted and sentenced to 6 months in jail, alongwith fines. They appealed, so the sentence was set aside till the appeal was heard. Again, they never showed up for appeal hearings either, and sent a lawyer instead.
And then came the NRO.
Case closed.
If Zardari or BB had 'ratti barabar sharam' in them, they would have bravely fought the swiss case, and tried to prove themselves innocent. Yet they chose to hid behind amnesty, and come back to loot the country. Zardari must be so happy that BB has been sidelined, now that he is free to loot and plunder all by himself. But expecting the bhuttos/zardaris to have any sharam is laughable in itself.
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
I wonder if we are talking of the same Benazir and Zardari, because you are continually making non-factual claims.
It was not a civil suit. It was a criminal case. Benazir and Zardari were convicted of bribery and money laundering (both are crimes) by the Swiss courts. They were sentenced to 6 months in jail. There is no jail in civil suits. The decision was overturned when they filed an appeal, which is standard practice. NRO and immunity gave them eventual protection.
1st you need to understand how the law works. 1) In Switzerland only Swizz authorities can prosecute BB/AAZ because only they have the proprietorial power under their laws to criminally prosecute someone if the Swiss laws were violated. 2) Their decision to or not to prosecute was independent w/o any involvement of government of Pakistan. 3) The GoP has no power in a foreign to country prosecute anyone for criminal wrong doings. It can only sue for civil damages (no convictions in civil cases...only fines). The reason the case was overturned was b/c the trial court judge errored in his initial decision & thats why appeals court set-aside the judge's decision.
Re: Swiss authorities refuse to reopen graft cases against President Zardari
1st you need to understand how the law works.
1) In Switzerland only Swizz authorities can prosecute BB/AAZ because only they have the proprietorial power under their laws to criminally prosecute someone if the Swiss laws were violated. I never disagreed with that. It was the assertion of Zardari and BB apologists above that the swiss case was politically motivated and filed by Nawaz Sharif. BB and Zardari committed money laundering and bribed a Swiss firm, which is why criminal charges were filed against them in Switzerland.
2) Their decision to or not to prosecute was independent w/o any involvement of government of Pakistan. Agreed.....tell that to Mr. Pasha above, who thinks Nawaz Sharif had enough clout with the Swiss to get them to prosecute BB and AAZ on his behalf
3) The GoP has no power in a foreign to country prosecute anyone for criminal wrong doings. It can only sue for civil damages (no convictions in civil cases...only fines). The reason the case was overturned was b/c the trial court jud, errored in his initial decision & thats why appeals court set-aside the judge's decision. Agree that GoP does not have power in a foreign country. The case was filed by the Swiss AG, and BB and AAZ were convicted of bribery and money laundering. ***Case was overturned because an appeal was filed. That appeal never went to fruition because BB and AAZ never showed up in court. You are misstating facts here. The trial court verdict was not nullified. It was set asirde as a natural side-effect of an appeal. When a murderer is sentenced to death, and he files an appeal, the death sentence is automatically set aside in order to wait for the appeal to be heard. Thats common practice. Dont make it sound like the trial court made a mistake, or that they were found innocent. The verdict is set in stone. BB and AAZ did not defend that verdict.
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