today at work i recieved a few calls of a unique nature. they were women calling in to get their last name changed in their account information cuz they had just got married.
every woman that i know of in my life has had to do it. in some cultures they even change the girl’s first name.
how do women take this tradition in general? is it that easy to let go of an identity you have stood beside for the first 20 or so years of your life?
u can look at it from two perspectives:
the woman is accepting her husbands legacy to give on to their offspring which is the dominant culture.
The judaist belief is that the mother carries the name so the child gets the mothers last name i think.
Usually women don't have a problem with it but some do who want to keep their fathers name considering they are the only child or for personal reasons which i am unaware of or just could be head strong.
Either way I promote that the wife take on the husbands last name :) a sense of unification.
umm .. yea it is weird to think that my last name wud be changed ..but its so common in our culture that i think getting used to it wudnt take much long either :)
First of all, to those who don't know, a woman does not "have" to change her last name. That is entirely a personal decision.
Having said that, I know a fair number of men, who insist that their wives change the last name. I knew a couple back in Pakistan, who had several fights, and then got separated. My mother tried to act as mediator and when the two sides got together to air out their grievances, the guy's first problem with the girl was that "she didn't even added my name to her name". And I was like "duh! what an idiot". Ofcourse there were other things, but apparently this was a big deal for the dude.
I know another couple, whose husband was highly religious and told his wife that as per Islamic rules, she doesn't have to change her surname. So, she kept her maiden name. They had a couple of kids. Turns out, that any time the family travelled internationally, at the airports, the wife will have to spend an extra few minutes answering why her last name does not match with rest of the family. Ultimately it became such a nuisance, that she just got her last name changed to get rid of this problem.
One compromise is for the woman to keep her maiden surname as her middle name and append her husband's surname at the end. This is what is typically done by many women in USA. That way, one advantage is that if they divorce, she can just kick out her husband's last name and revert back to her maiden surname. Although, this way the name becomes a bit longish and odd (e.g. Khadija Bokhari Ahmed) :)
i think its really sweet to change the name after marriage :) but i do know of some muslim ppl who didnt, arabs mostly. i heard in islam u arent required to change the name.
You can change your surname after marriage or keep the one you were born with. However, it does make sense, in most Islamic cultures, for the woman to change the last name due to the paternalistic relevance of most cultures in which the surname is passed down, for geneologocal purposes, through the father’s side. Another option is to hyphenate the name.
When I got married earlier on this year I didn't change my surname but I did change my title to 'Mrs'.
I prefer to do that as well :k:
eventhough its not necessary for a woman to change her surname after getting married, i have to agree with coco, that changing a name to some signifies a unification…belonging to the same family…
and a good way of doin that would be as pointed out by faisal, where the wife keeps her family name as a middle name, and adds the husbands last name :k:
In Islam a woman does not change her name to her husbands, she is always known as "Bint so and so" the daughter of so and so
There are some idiot husbands and in-laws who force incoming bahu to change her FIRST name as well. Just because they don't like it or whatever. Idiots!.
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*Originally posted by Majestic: *
In Islam a woman does not change her name to her husbands, she is always known as "Bint so and so" the daughter of so and so
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You are talking about Arabic custom, which is not NECESSARILY what Islam requires anyone to do. "Bint so and so" or "Um-e so and so" is 100% Arabic, thats all.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shahreen: *
When I got married earlier on this year I didn't change my surname but I did change my title to 'Mrs'.
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just out of curiosity wouldnt that be wrong, to be called Mrs Sandleen 'and your father's name'
So basically you are Mrs 'your father's name'
As per my knowledge Mrs followed by the Male name practically means Mrs of the person to whom the Male name belongs to.
So in your case rather then being Mrs of your husband you are Mrs of your father as per your way of writing your name suggests
Just a thought.....
Changing of last name can be annoying, maybe change your title ot Ms rather then Miss.
Isn't it Pakistani custom that the woman takes on the man's first name as a surname? And doesn't this make it more difficult to trace family trees? Here for example, if someone is called Joe Bloggs, then the Bloggs name will be passed on down the generations. I think it works better really.
I have never and will never change my name. Majestic, my name is Ana Bint J. as well, but desis regard that as a purely Arab culture, so no point arguing with them that it is just a conjunction and the same thing as a "without bint". Anyway.
In Islam - not in Arab culture only - it is highly prefered that women do NOT change their name. At one place, I have read that it is absolutely forbidden to change their name, but I can't remember the source rite now. It is desi culture, which is paternalistic. The reason women are given the preferance to keep their own name is because the blood lines must have clear identification, otherwise a "Sana bint Fakhri" or "Sana Fakhri" who marries Aamir Saud becomes "Sana Saud" and is in effect on written paper reflected as either his sister or mother, not his wife. In the case that she adopts her husband's first name, she becomes his daughter - on paper. Future generations who have forgotten their ancestry will misinterpret past records, and this causes a great deal of confusion in their lives, marriages, birth, deaths, etc... Esp. when trying to figure out things like if the uncles can marry their sister's nieces or the wife's son can marry the husband's first wife's daughter's neice, etc... It creates a mess.
Blood lines, if you remember, are very important in Islam, that they be kept identifiable and distinct. This is because they give the individual his/her unique identity, and a sense of belonging to a specific tribe. This is the same reason that orphans cannot take on the name of the adoptive-parents, but in fact have to retain their own name, regardless of whether they were found abandoned as an infant with no identiying mark, in which case they are given a name that is separate and distinct from their foster-family's.
Another reason a woman keeps her own name in Islam, is to ensure her welfare and independence. A name is a very powerful symbol of independence. A woman who does not adopt her husband's name, is asserting herself as an individual, who realizes rightfully that her actions and deeds are her own, and she is accountable for them - not her husband. Her husband's duty is limited to providing for her well-being and looking after her, but whatever her deeds or misdeeds are, cannot be ascribed to him. However, they can to a certain extent be ascribed to her own father and mother - since she was brought up by them, and they provided the initial basis for her character and molded her personality in her formative years. It is said that the "sins of the father are revisited upon the children" in the Bible. If you think about it carefully, in Islam it is the other way around.
Another reason a woman keeps her own name, is to give her the power to change her spouses as she wills. This is a freedom that is hers, that no man can take away. She gives her body as a wife, and she gives her caring, love, affection and carries out her duties of caring for her husband whatever they may be, BUT if she chooses to leave the marriage, she is able to do so thru either divorce or khula, and then continue her life with another man, or men if she leaves many marriages, as the case may be. By keeping her name, there is no restriction on her to seek out her own life, after all she is solely responsible for it.
I believe this desi tradition of taking on the husband's name, that is really a paganistic-hand-me-down, is very wrong. Society puts enough pressure on a woman to hold her back from realizing her full potential as an individual, then the pressure from her own family circle, especially the one person who she is most intimately connected with and who is in a way her second half.. this is not to be borne by anyone who cares for the fact that they were born free and will die free, so why the earthly bonds? An ideal husband will not pressure his wife to change her name to his own. This is the test of his own egoism, his tolerance and ability to understand his other half, and treat her with the dignity that another human being merits. After all, if a guest comes to spend the weekend at your home, would you ask him to change his name for the ability to stay in your house and partake of your hospitality and love? All relationships on this earth are temporary, and we all are equal human beings. If the wife takes on the name of the husband, it is only right that the husband be asked to take on the name of his wife.
Yet another reason for the woman keeping her own name, is to keep her linked to her own family even after her marriage. Many - many- desi men are cruel beyond limit in theis regard. They will visit their own parents, but stop the wife from visiting hers. If she calls her family, the men will point to the phone bill. She must first look after the welfare of her in-laws, before giving her own family some attention. This is haraam. Yes, this is another of my fatwas.
The person who stops another from keeping relations with family, kith and kin, is destined for Hell. The gunah of severing relations with people, is immense. Allah SWT has said to treat your parents with respect. The desi men, only take this to be relevant to their own parents. In fact, whether they are the girl's parents or the guy's, both deserve equal respect and gratitude as one's elders. If the girl's parents are in trouble or need assistance, it is incumbent upon the wife to look after her own family matters first, as is the same with the husband. If the wife cannot help her family out in their time of need, the husband should try to assist as well. People in desistan give this co-operation and humble love, the dastardly names of "ghar jamai" or "ghar damad" or "jooru ka ghulam". People who think like this, are beasts themselves.
The same case goes for the man's family. He has to look after his affairs, and if he cannot, his wife may help him. Note, that in the case of the the woman helping the man out - financially, emotionally, spiritually or whatever - it is entirely optional on the part of the woman. In the case of the husband helping his wife out - it is mandatory. She is under his care and protection, her father and guardians entrusted her to his care. He is responsible for her financially, he is responsible for her soundness of mind (unless she is medically proven to be mad), he is responsible for her physical wellbeing, and her spiritual state as well.
This is really a blessing in Islam, that woman can be relatively carefree and happy this way, doing what she wants, as she wants, when she likes. If she is unmarried or has become single again, she is still under the care of her guardians. She may be very brave and bold and advanced, but she is still under someone's caring eye, because while some men may be good, there are others that are not, and she is not in a position to know about all the different sorts out there because men wear a different mask when dealing with a woman than amongst themselves.
Also, if she is an orphan, she is under the care of society - or is supposed to be, but knowing the cut-throats of today, society causes more harm to a woman than good, and this is more because of what woman do to each other than anything else.
It is convoluted Biblical and Judaic traditions that have deviated from their own original path, and paganism infused into modern cultures, that has created syncrenistic values that people follow today.
If u think about why a woman should keep her own name, there are more good reasons for it than you can shake a fist at. :)
I HATE my last name. Actually, somewhere down the line, my dad's family replaced the family name (which identified us as Memons), with my great great grandfather's first name, and hence started the tradition of taking the father's first name and using it as a last name for the child.
then, I think in my father's generation, they had to stop that because when my dad came to the US, his last name didn't match his father's. So my dad had to keep my grandfather's last name...which SUCKED!
Plus, it sounds even worse with my first name attached.
So, if my future husband has a good last name, heck, I'm changing it!
I think a woman can keep both names. Like Marina Khan. Khan is her father's name. And when she gets married. The name may look like: Marina Khan Walter. Walter being her hubbys name. So her childeren can get Walter as surname.
And when she gets a divorce. She is bakc to Marina Khan. And when she remarrys another person, she get his last name. And so the new childeren.
How about Benazir Zardari...lol
Ana,
Thanks for that massive post. Although there's quite a lot to digest in one go there, certainly some food for thought. I never looked at it that way before.
So, if my future husband has a good last name, heck, I'm changing it!
lol...you can't change nothing. You have to follow the law of the land wherever you reside. :)
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Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
Isn't it Pakistani custom that the woman takes on the man's **first* name as a surname? And doesn't this make it more difficult to trace family trees? Here for example, if someone is called Joe Bloggs, then the Bloggs name will be passed on down the generations. I think it works better really.
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One reason may be that for many people in Pakistan, they just don’t have a family/surname or last name. I have seen a lot of people, whose father's name is something like Muhammad Aslam, and the son's name is Muhammad Zahid and so on. So, they don't really have any last name. In which case, if at all, the wife will just get her husband's calling name (Aslam or Zahid in this case).
Another curious thing, I did notice that in some cases, the sons get their father's last name and the daughters get the father's first name. Like I have some family friends whose father's name is Muhammad Aijaz Khan. The sons are named Muhammad ___ Khan, while the daughters' are named ___ Aijaz. At one time I asked and the reason they gave was that the daughter's last name will be changed anyway after marriage, so why give them the family's last name (‘waste’ was the word they used). Another of those idiosyncrasies that I couldn't figure out.