Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
Only if Busharraf stops making deals with them, stop playing with laws and start prosecuting them.
But then again, is there such a magic formula known which will work in all directions, keep all requirements asked of Musharraf satisfied, keep him here atleast as long as things start getting right, and at the same time;
Bring true fair democracy
All democratically elected leaders being democratic new, clean, efficient, trustworthy people
The old crooks are barred from politics and punished
No protests or whining over human rights or foreign pressure in punishing or barring the old corrupt figures, leaders, officials and cleaning the system.
Some sort of muscle used to keep the trouble makers at bay while these changes are taking place, in collaboration with the amendments in constitution and through law, without agenda based protests by agenda based politicized figures or misguided public
All sections of society, religious, liberal etc satisfied by all policies.
Global political pressures esp those from the super powers left unheeded or dodged in a way to satisfy all sections of society esp those that oppose friendship with west and promote confrontation and yet keeping Pakistan safe from foreign threats in the light of the changed scenario and war on terror post 9/11
Trusting the 30% literate nation to elect leaders responsibly and not make past mistakes in being fooled, misguided and plundered yet again.
Crushing revolting, separatists, terrorist, anti nationalist elements of society while also keeping any threats of civil disharmony away
Yet keep the system non-dictatorial. And any military involvement out
Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
But then again, is there such a magic formula known which will work in all directions, keep all requirements asked of Musharraf satisfied, keep him here atleast as long as things start getting right, and at the same time;
For example? Please keep the "economy" mumbo jumbo aside for now.
Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
Trusting the 30% literate nation to elect leaders responsibly and not make past mistakes in being fooled, misguided and plundered yet again.
so you're saying that Mush is like our big brother who thinks that we can't make any decision because we aren't educated so he thought of making all the decisions for us.
Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
so you're saying that Mush is like our big brother who thinks that we can't make any decision because we aren't educated so he thought of making all the decisions for us.
CB, no, more like the the 80% esp rural voters who go out on poll day and vote out of being influenced in various ways, or due to lack of awareness.
Plus if we don't want the old corrupt faces, which is more or less agreed by all, pro-Mush or anti, we do have to listen to & stick for some time with someone like him, unfortunately we cant get rid of the corrupt tried figures of the past and avoid a figure like Musharraf at the same time...
Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
progress has been made on human development indicators as well, ranging from education, to infant mortality to avg life span.
The murder ratio is the greatest in Mush regime - More bombings, more suicidal attacks, more so-called terrorism, more kiidnappings........... . we can't really blame all this to 9/11.
and yes, Power sharing with Muttahidda Quami Murderers......
Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
atleast not as a permanent system (not that Mush falls into this description exactly),
Only if I could take ur word for it. Chalo if he does not fall into this category, what other category does he fall in? Which institution, person, object, animal or divine entity has he been held accountable to in seven years? Very interested to know.
what many don't want either is the sorry excuse for strengthened selective judiciary or lame democracy by non-democratic multiple times tested criminal leaders...
Then how come different polls consistently point to the exact opposite of what u r claiming here?
Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
CB, no, more like the the 80% esp rural voters who go out on poll day and vote out of being influenced in various ways, or due to lack of awareness.
Plus if we don't want the old corrupt faces, which is more or less agreed by all, pro-Mush or anti, we do have to listen to & stick for some time with someone like him, unfortunately we cant get rid of the corrupt tried figures of the past and avoid a figure like Musharraf at the same time...
There is way to do it, it may not be the easiest of ride but will educate everyone. The process is of setting up accountability across board whether its army, judiciary or government they all should be accountable for any action taken, any fraud detected etc. Once justice becomes un-interferred (which will be supported by media) corruption will slow down, accountability will go up, people will become aware of their rights and once they know they can hold a public servant (who are kings nowadays) accountable then servants will become servants.
Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
why do we need to stay with one corrupt in order to get rid of others. It just doesn't make sense...
Well basically because it is true that while he may have allowed corruption under him unchecked, he himself in his person is not corrupt, atleast not in comparison with the others from the past we have against him as the only possible replacements...so either we get rid of all and start afresh, which is not practically possible without a people's revolution, or, we stick with the slightly better option peacefully and devise a smooth process to step out of the losing streak instead of getting impatient and trying to push the govt out only making room for the older govt which was no better to come back, so for once there could be an end to the ritual that Pakistan is lead to of out of the frying pan, into the fire with each successive coup, election, coup, election, coup...
Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
Only if I could take ur word for it. Chalo if he does not fall into this category, what other category does he fall in? Which institution, person, object, animal or divine entity has he been held accountable to in seven years? Very interested to know.
Somewhere king_faisal mentioned what classic military dictators are/were actually like...
Then how come different polls consistently point to the exact opposite of what u r claiming here?
what can be said of such polls...besides, even if they are the ultimate truth, aren't some of my points proven right when we see the same ppl who wanted BB, NS etc kicked, punished until 1999 now supporting BB, NS etc **again **within a span of 8 yrs, just because Musharraf hasn't delivered as much as desired, therefore the rejects of the past are welcomed again just because a change is needed asap and there's no one powerful enough th replace Musharraf but the very enemies of public from the past? Whose loss? What solution? If sticking with Musharraf isnt the right solution, bringing back the same pack of wolves rather hyenas is a worse solution...
Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
There is way to do it, it may not be the easiest of ride but will educate everyone. The process is of setting up accountability across board whether its army, judiciary or government they all should be accountable for any action taken, any fraud detected etc. Once justice becomes un-interferred (which will be supported by media) corruption will slow down, accountability will go up, people will become aware of their rights and once they know they can hold a public servant (who are kings nowadays) accountable then servants will become servants.
The concept is perfect, I want this too. But how do we start? Just by kicking Musharraf, brining in one of the older faces just because they may be elected in out of present hatred for Musharraf at the moment, and sit and wait to see institutions get strong on their own, and the newly discovered judiciary and media hold everything and everyone accountable and make things go smooth for the rest of time...It should work that way, but it doesn't, esp the media and judiciary alone dont seem ready or willing enough to cater this cause for Pakistan and Pakistanis, they're in it as enthusiastically right now because anti-Mush cakes sell hot. Are all lawyers, anchors, reporters, judges ready to take on thanedars, ministers, civil servants, crimials, mafia, terrorists, extremists, feudals and so on for Pakistan? If they are, and they show they are, then we might be ready for a media-judiciary revolution, and in that case why do we need to bring the likes of BB-NS back? Why don't we start changing the system and holding on only to those who are useful? Unfortunately something is missing in the pattern...
Re: Supreme Court Rejects plea for stay against Musharraf re-election
Somewhere king_faisal mentioned what classic military dictators are/were actually like...
Does not answer my question.
Faisal said something...so?
what can be said of such polls...besides, even if they are the ultimate truth, aren't some of my points proven right when we see the same ppl who wanted BB, NS etc kicked, punished until 1999 now supporting BB, NS etc **again **within a span of 8 yrs, just because Musharraf hasn't delivered as much as desired, therefore the rejects of the past are welcomed again just because a change is needed asap and there's no one powerful enough th replace Musharraf but the very enemies of public from the past? Whose loss? What solution? If sticking with Musharraf isnt the right solution, bringing back the same pack of wolves rather hyenas is a worse solution...
The polls may not be the ultimate truth but they do keep on pointing in one direction as far as Musharraf's popularity is concerned. And if people want "enemies of public from the past" back, what does it tell u about Musharraf's performance? To me, it looks like people think BB/NS r lesser of the two evils. Let there be fair elections. It's not Musharraf's fiefdom that he can manipulate every law/institution to stay in power. That he is doing just that, shows there r no moral arguments here. And this is the guy who spoke of morality with NS. Anyway I am going off-topic.
Point is, this is our country. We should decide who rules. If people don't want Mush, he should be out. Majority rule. Simple as that. Any other proposition puts us in the same league as Mullah Umer and his followers. Substitute the faces and places and it's the same damn arrangement. A military strong man imposed on a nation not because he has the most number of votes but because he has the most number of guns. If u r going to take an averse position to democracy today just because u find Musharraf agreeable, don't forget the dictator who replaces him might not be so agreeable. And every inch of support we provide to Musharraf today will be converted into a mile of misery tomorrow. That is why we need to stop supporting him.
I am not even going into the BB/NS bashing. If BB is so bad, why is Mush dealing with her? Why did he want to deal with PML-N..Shehbaz in particular?
