[quote]
Originally posted by Insaniyat:
**Ok sister xcommunist
tell me one thing u like to go everything with Quran and i do respect it as the most authentic book and a way for guidance for us, so tell me does Quran ask us to respect Ayesha, Abu Bakr and Umar. Well if it doesnt and we have our own reason, which i have shown with the proofs, there where is this significant diff coming from
Waiting for your reply **
[/quote]
"It is not befitting for a
believing man or woman, when
a matter has been decided by
Allah and His Messenger, to
have any option about their
decision." [Soorah al-Ahzaab
(33):36]
"There will be a man with
full stomach, reclining on
his pillow, who will hear a
command from me and say, "Let
the judge between us (in this
matter) be Allah's Book: we
obey whetever we find in it."
[Know that] indeed, I have
been given the Book and, with
it, that which is similar to
it (the Sunnah)." [Ahmad,
Aboo Daawood, Saheeh ul-
Jaami`]
You (Muslims) are the best nation ever raised among the mankind: (because) you
advocate righteousness and FORBID EVIL, and you believe in (one) GOD (ALLAH).
(Sura: Alay-Imran; Ayat:110)
**Sitaaron Pay Jo Daltay Hain Kamand!**
Shaheen=An Eagle or A Flacon!
How come people come up with the idea that Shaheen is a "gal"????
[quote]
Originally posted by Insaniyat:
**Ok sister xcommunist
tell me one thing u like to go everything with Quran and i do respect it as the most authentic book and a way for guidance for us, so tell me does Quran ask us to respect Ayesha, Abu Bakr and Umar. Well if it doesnt and we have our own reason, which i have shown with the proofs, there where is this significant diff coming from
Waiting for your reply **
[/quote]
no, ur right, no where in the quran does it say to respect aisha or abubakr or umar.
hmm..
--How is hating AISHA in ANY WAY beneficial to you???
--How is hating ABU BAKR in ANY WAY beneficial to you?
--How is performing matam in ANY WAY beneficial to you?
if we were all to offer salaat five times a day, understand teh quran, and peform the five pillars of ISLAM...i dont think ingredients like millad, matam, tabarruk, tawassul, etc...should be part of our lives.
as far as the significant differences, the quran did not create them.....humans did.
its history.....recorded history that u are relying on as am i.
[This message has been edited by X_Communist (edited January 02, 2001).]
It is beneficial to you if you realize that Abu Baker and Aisha were munafiqs; hence following their sayings and hadith narrations may mis-lead you from the tru path.
If you realize that Imam Ali (as) was on the right path - thru all the calamities he faced from Aisha and her rebellion - then don't you think that you should make a judgement call as to the credibility of the characters that you follow blindly. And no, you do not follow the Qur'an and sunnah but interpretations of these 2 sources given to you by your dubious sahabahs.
Funny, in real life, credibility would be a critical issue but since it affects yr sham sahabahs, everything goes - lies, theft, murder.
For us, they are all good. We dare not look to see how they behaved because they have been immune by being in the presence of the holy apostle (pbuh).
Hmmm, rather i think its the other way around, maybe substitute X-commi with a1shah.
Let me elaborate, first you say:
‘It is beneficial to you if you realize that Abu Baker and Aisha were munafiqs; hence following their sayings and hadith narrations may mis-lead you from the tru path.’
Then you state:
‘For us, they are all good. We dare not look to see how they behaved because they have been immune by being in the presence of the holy apostle (pbuh).’
I wonder how you can give the former statement if you truly believe in the latter one.
What sunnis say? Dream on. The sahabas were men, just as the Prophet sallallaho alaihe wasallam was. No one and nothing can grant us immunity from judgement except Allah swt.
[quote]
Originally posted by X_Communist:
** no, ur right, no where in the quran does it say to respect aisha or abubakr or umar.
hmm..
--How is hating AISHA in ANY WAY beneficial to you???
--How is hating ABU BAKR in ANY WAY beneficial to you?
--How is performing matam in ANY WAY beneficial to you?
if we were all to offer salaat five times a day, understand teh quran, and peform the five pillars of ISLAM...i dont think ingredients like millad, matam, tabarruk, tawassul, etc...should be part of our lives.
as far as the significant differences, the quran did not create them.....humans did.
its history.....recorded history that u are relying on as am i.
[This message has been edited by X_Communist (edited January 02, 2001).]**
[/quote]
Sister
Well she was not with the Haq, U want me to respect the lady and person, who after the death of Prophet, went against the teaching of the Prophet and Quran, and even led to the war, letting the blood shed of lotta muslims, sorry u can, but personally i can't respect them. I like to follow Haq and hate Batil.
I Would still advice u sis keep all ur emotions and feelings aside and use ur mind to judge, how can we respect her when she disobeyed Quran, led a war against haq, how can u respect the man who disobeyed Prophet hadith's and declared himself as Khaleefa, splitting the muslim ummah for power.
So you do admit they they were only human and could commit mistakes - all except for the purified itra - our holy prophet (pbuh) and his sinless family.
Why don't you try critizing yr sahabahs and see the reactions that you get.
Bottomline, sunni beliefs lies on the fact that sahabahs were ALL good and their examples should be followed. No questions should be asked. If they had disagreements between themselves, it was a matter between them.
This is a backward system of thought taught to the ahl sunnat by the corrupt Umayad and Abbasid dynasties in order to prevent the truth from being revealed.
a1shah,
Only Prophets are sinless..all sahabas including Hazrat Ali and Ahle bait are not sinproof and can commit sins as they r human beings. But they due to their faith in Allah and Prophet Muhammad tried theit best to avoid sins and thats only their greatness.
[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah: So you do admit they they were only human and could commit mistakes - all except for the purified itra - our holy prophet (pbuh) and his sinless family.
[/quote]
I do not recall making any such exception. Speak for yourself.
[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah: Why don't you try critizing yr sahabahs and see the reactions that you get.
[/quote]
I am not so hypocritical as to think myself on par with the sahabas as to be able to pass criticism on them.
La hawla wala quwata illah billahil aleeyul azeem.
There is no power and might except from Allah. The most high - The great.
Then here is a challenge - find one recorded historical fact showing that the holy progeny - whom Allah (swt) has purified as stated in verse 33:33 - committed any sin.
As for yr sahabahs, history has recorded numerous cases ranging from the running away from battlefields, to disobeying the holy messenger (pbuh), to looting, plundering, and causing rebellions.
Then here is a challenge - find one recorded historical fact showing that the holy progeny .....
As for yr sahabahs, history has recorded numerous cases ranging from the running away from battlefields, to disobeying the holy messenger (pbuh), to looting, plundering, and causing rebellions.
**
[/quote]
There is a difference between not commiting a sin andnot have thae capacity to do that. Who says prophets family commited sin? But to me their greatness lies not doing anything wrong while having the capcity to do that than merely sinproof.
To me it doesnt matter who did what after Prophet SAW as all those were striving for their own jannah. Why should I worry about those people. I know I can follow Allah and his book with the help of Holy Prophets sunnah and dont need any other help.
Well she was not with the Haq, U want me to respect the lady and person, who after the death of Prophet, went against the teaching of the Prophet and Quran, and even led to the war, letting the blood shed of lotta muslims, sorry u can, but personally i can't respect them. I like to follow Haq and hate Batil.
I Would still advice u sis keep all ur emotions and feelings aside and use ur mind to judge, how can we respect her when she disobeyed Quran, led a war against haq, how can u respect the man who disobeyed Prophet hadith's and declared himself as Khaleefa, splitting the muslim ummah for power.**
[/quote]
insaniyat dear, taht is YOUR history! My history doenst contain such info (nonsense)....and since it doesnt, i cannot declare taht aisha wasnt on haq.
and im sorry to say....subtituting ALI in quranic ayahs isnt right, either.
Verily, I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you: the Book of God and my kindred (`itrah), my household (Ahl alBayt), for indeed, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the Pond (of alKawthar on the Judgement’s Day)."
here are four references for the hadith.
(Muslim says Zuhayr ibn Harb and Shujaibn Makhlad narrated to me fromUlayyah that he said: Zuhayr said: narrated to us Ismail ibn Ibrahim, from Abu Hayyan, from Yazid ibn Hayyan, who said: "I, Husayn ibn Sabrah and Umar ibn Muslim went to see Zayd ibn Arqam. When we sat down with him, Husayn said to him, ‘O Zayd, you have been greatly fortunate. You have seen the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be Allah’s peace and benedictions, heard his speech, fought with him in battles and have prayed behind him. Indeed, O Zayd, you have been enormously fortunate. Narrate to us what you have heard from the Messenger of Allah , may Allah’s peace and benedictions be upon him.’
“Zayd said: ‘O brother, by God, I have become aged and old and I have forgotten some of what I used to remember from the Messenger of Allah , upon whom be Allah’s peace and benedictions. So accept what I narrate to you and as to what I don’t, trouble me not regarding it.’ Then he said: ‘One day the Messenger of Allah , upon whom be Allah’s peace and benedictions, addressed us near a pond called Khumm between Makkah and Madinah. He praised God and extolled Him and preached and reminded (us). Then he said, “Lo, O people, I am only a human being and I am about to respond to the messenger of my Lord *. I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you. The first of the two is the Book of Allah. In it is guidance and light. So get hold of the Book of Allah and adhere to it.” Then he urged and motivated (us) regarding the Book of Allah . Then he said, “And my Ahl alBayt (family). I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt”’” …
(Sahih Muslim, part 7, Kitab fada’il alSahabah [Maktabat wa Matbaat Muhammad Ali Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123.)
(AlHakim says Narrated to us Abu alHusayn Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Tamim alHanzali in Baghdad, from Abu Qallabah Abd alMalik ibn Muhammad alRaqqashi, from Yahya ibn Hammad; also narrated to me Abu Bakr Muhammad ibn Balawayh and Abu Bakr Ahmad ibn Jafar alBazzaz, both of them from Abd Allah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal, from his father, from Yahya ibn Hammad; and also narrated to us Abu Nasr Ahmad ibn Suhayl, the faqih of Bukhara, from Salih ibn Muhammad, the hafiz of Baghdad, from Khalaf ibn Salim alMakhrami, from Yahya ibn Hammad; and Yahya ibn Hammad narrated from Abu Uwwanah from Sulayman al’A`mash, from Habib ibn Abi Thabit, from Abu alTufayl, from Zayd ibn Arqam, may God be pleased with him, who said: "The Messenger of Allah , may God’s peace and benedictions be upon him and his progeny, while returning from his last hajj (hijjat alwada’) came down at Ghadir Khumm and ordered (us) towards the big trees, and (the ground) underneath them was swept.
“Then he said, 'I am about to answer the call (of death). Verily, I have left behind two precious things amongst you, one of which is greater than the other. The Book of Allah , the Exalted, and my itrah (kindred). So watch out how you treat these two after me, for verily they will not separate from each other until they come back to me by the side of the Pond.' Then he said 'Verily, Allah , the Almighty and the Glorious, is my master (mawla) and I am the master of every believer (mu'min).' Then he took Ali, may God be pleased with him, by the hand and said, ‘This (`Ali) is the master of whomever I am his master. O God, love whoever loves him and be the enemy of his enemy.’”
(AlHakim adds “This hadith is sahih in accordance with the conditions of sihhah laid down by the Shaykhayn (alBukhari and Muslim), although they have not recorded it in its full length.”
AlHakim says The first tradition (mentioned above) is supported by this one narrated by Salamah ibn Kuhayl, from Abu alTufayl, which is also sahih according to the requirements of alBukhari and Muslim. Narrated to us Abu Bakr ibn Ishaq and Dalaj ibn Ahmad alSijzi, both of them from Muhammad ibn Ayyub, from al'Azraq ibn Ali, from Hassan ibn Ibrahim alKirmani, from Muhammad ibn Salamah ibn Kuhayl, from his father, from Abu al-Tufayl, from Ibn Wathilah that he heard Zayd ibn Arqam, may God be pleased with him, say: “The Messenger of Allah , may Allah 's peace and benedictions be upon him and his progeny, came down at a place between Makkah and Madinah near the trees with five big shades and the people swept the ground under the trees. Then the Messenger of Allah , may God’s peace and benediction be upon him and his progeny, began to perform the evening prayer. After the prayer he began to address the people. He praised God and extolled Him, preaching and reminding (us), and said what God wanted him to say. Then he said, ‘O people! Verily, I am leaving behind two matters (amrayn) among you if you follow them (the two) you will never go astray. These two are: the Book of God and my ahl albayt, my itrah.' Then he said thrice: 'Do you know that I have more right over the believers (Inni awla bi almu'minin) than they over themselves?' The people said, 'Yes.' Then the Messenger of Allah , may Allah's peace and benedictions be upon him and his progeny said, 'Of whomever I am his master (mawla) Ali also is his master.’”
(al’Imam al-Hafiz Abu Abd Allah alHakim alNaysaburi, alMustadrak ala al-Sahihayn [Dar alMarifah li alTibaah wa alNashr: Beirut), vol. iii, pp. 109-110).
(AlHakim says Narrated to us Abu Bakr Muhammad ibn alHusayn ibn Muslim, the faqih of Ray, from Muhammad ibn Ayyub, from Yahya ibn al-Mughirah alSadi, from Jarir ibn Abd alHamid, from alHasan ibn Abd Allah alNakhai, from Muslim ibn Subayh, from Zayd ibn Arqam, may God be pleased with him, who said: “The Messenger of Allah , may Allah’s peace and benedictions be upon him and his progeny, said, ‘Verily, I leave behind two precious things amongst you: the Book of Allah and my ahl albayt. Verily, the two will never separate until they come back to me by the side of the Pond.’”
(AlHakim says This hadith is sahih al’isnad according to the conditions laid down by the Shaykhayn (alBukhari and Muslim), though they did not record it. (alHakim, op. cit., vol. iii, p. 148
I don’t know what history r u following, but here is a hadith and the event of Ghadeer with sunni references, sister what does ur so called history tell u that Bibi Ayesha didnt led war against Ali does it deny the Ayats of Quran or fabricates Hadith’s that the Quran is not meant to be followed by the wives of the prophet. Ur history doesnt tell u the follow the Hadith’s of the Prophet, does it say Abu Bakr should be the next Caliph (any proofs), sister i have brought these matters lot of times and ask u to disprove it if u don’t agree with me, but u just don’t seem to get it in ur mind, all ur sick mind does is come up with some lame excuses to avoid the truth, answer my questions sisteri have asked a hell lot of times. First disprove me before bringing up issues, thats all u and watcher does. Just can’t stand the truth and make lame excuses, if u don’t agree with the above Ayat the Allshah mentioned that tell us wat is it referring too.*
Its true that Hazrat Aysha led war against Hazrat Ali. But its also true that both of them were human beings and can make mistakes or misunderstandings can occur between them. But u dont see what happened after the war and what Hazrat Ali said. He made it clear that there would be no more remorse between them after the war. Ae u implying that Hazrat Ali still had against Hazray Aysha after that. Can u bring some evidence. U should follow Hazrat Ali in this regard.
If there is no mention of Hazrat Abu Bakr for becoming Khalifa then its not mentioned in Quran that he cant become one. To me its not even important who became Khalifa as it doesnt effect my life. If he did any unislamic act then Allah is there to give justice.
They are confused and they will do what a confused does. So no point in debating with people of heedless.
They call the most noble and closest people near the Prophet traitors, isn't that an insult to Allah who appointed or let those traitors so close to our prophet? These people will never listen or open their eyes to the truth!
Among those is the fact that modern-day innovators in Islam(shia, brailvi, etc.) are absolutely incapable of engaging in a logical fact-based discussion of important issues. Logic is to their typical big-so-called Imam what a clove of garlic is to Dracula. They can't handle it, so they hide from it.
Truth hurts them so they find ways to twist the lies even more and make it look like its the truth, according to them!