Sunni beliefs regarding the Shia Imams

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

I know that their first Imam Ali :razi: is considered as the fourth Khalifah and a very noble Sahaabi, and Imam Al-Hassan :razi: and Imam Al-Hussain :razi: are also Sahaabah but what about Imam Zain Al-Abideen and other Imams and also do we believe their last Imam existed?

Also are we also suppose to say :as: after the name of Aal-e-Nabi :saw: or :razi: like we do for other Sahaabah?

PS. I opened this thread to learn… No mud slinging or being childish, if you don’t agree with the opposing view then debate in a mature manner, no name calling and getting emotional etc. Emotion is the absence of reason.

I don’t want this thread getting closed.

2

Re: Sunni beliefs regarding the Shia Imams

:salam:

1-as far as your first question is concerned…yes hadrat zainulabideen and other ahl-e-bait were also noteworthy sunni personnalities . Many of ahle bait who are consederd as imams in shia believes r even narators of hadiths in sunni books…They alll practised islam (sunni way) al thier lives…to cover this loop in imamia mythology shia usually say that they were doing so because of TAqiyyah…

2-There is another thread whre this thing is being discused…it is safer to cal them rehmatualla as we call other tabaees and taba-tabaees…

:wsalam:

3

Re: Sunni beliefs regarding the Shia Imams

I made a mistake so I deleted my POSTS.

take care

4

Re: Re: Sunni beliefs regarding the Shia Imams

:eek:

:konfused:

:eek:

:konfused:

:eek:

:konfused:

Still… :eek:

5

Re: Re: Sunni beliefs regarding the Shia Imams

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
Sunni believe is that some of the Imams died and impostors took
their place. Due to the nature of underground(takia) shia preaching
the Caliphs of those times got rid of the Imams.

[/QUOTE]
i am a sunni and I dun have that belief . infact never heard that...

The only thing i know is that The imaams of shia are among those great people of time from whom we can seek guidance.. although we as sunni dun beleive in the concept of Imam.

6

Re: Re: Re: Sunni beliefs regarding the Shia Imams

Finishes :eek: ing

:slight_smile:

7

Re: Re: Re: Sunni beliefs regarding the Shia Imams

Me too

Mr. Rehman1: Please do not spread false information.

For all Muslims, 12 imaams are respected personalities.

Here are their names.

  1. Hazrat Imam Ali Murtaza (ra)
  2. Hazrat Imam Hasan (ra)
  3. Hazrat Imam Husain (ra)
  4. Hazrat Imam Ali Zainulabedeen (ra)
  5. Hazrat Imam Muhammad Baqir (ra)
  6. Hazrat Imam Jafar sadiq (ra)
  7. Hazrat Imam Musa kazim (ra)
  8. Hazrat Imam Ali raza (ra)
  9. Hazrat Imam Muhammad Taqi (ra)
    10 Hazrat Imam Ali naqi (ra)
  10. Hazrat Imam Hasan Askari (ra)
  11. Hazrat Imam Muhammad(known as Imam Mehdi) (ra)

According to Shia literature Imam Mehdi is son of Imam Hasan Askari, he was born in Sarman Rai (Iraq) on 15 Sha’baan 255 AH, he is alive but he will apear at a later time and will lead muslims from all over the world.

According to sunni belief Imam Mehdi is not born yet. He will be from Ahl-Bayt. His name will be same as Prophet Muhammad:saw: and he will be the leader of muslims worldover.

This is stated for information in good faith. No one is required to agree but these are all sacred personalities of islam and bieng a muslim we all respect them.

If some information is incorrect then please rectify it. Thanks

8

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sunni beliefs regarding the Shia Imams

i Agree with u two…

but may be intuit can she more light on this ,…i am not sure that 12th imam (according to shia believe) was born in sarman raa…may be he later hided their…during his gheebat e shugra and now in his gheebat e kubra…

yes his birth was not announced…casuing confusion…and the tarka of imam hasan askri was not left for him…

plz correct me if i am wrong…no intention to start debate…

9

Sunni’s consider all the Shia Imams (ra) very pious, worthy of honour and very knowledgeable especially upto Imam Musa kazim (ra).

Imam (ra) Abu Hanifah studied for two years under Imam Jaffer Al Sadiq (ra) and his father (Imam Jaffer’s) Imam Baqir (ra).

Imam Malik ibn Anas (ra) also spent sometime studying under the guidance of Imam Jaffer Al Sadiq (ra).

In fact the mother of Imam Jaffer Al Sadiq is the great grand daughter of Hazrat Abu Bakr Sadiq (ra) throuth his his son Muhammed bin Abi Bakr! [Muhammad bin Abi Bakr was brought up by Hazrat Ali (ra).]

Imam Abu Hanifah (ra) and Imam Malik (ra) also took knowledge from many other reputed scholars of the time.

Imam Abu Hanifah (ra) and Imam Malik (ra) are the best known students of Imam Jaffer Al Sadiq (ra).

At this time there were no religious differences as such among Muslims - as it is now. The differences were only on political level.

It is recorded in Shia books that no Shia Imam ever cursed any of the Sahabahs but had great respect and praise for the Sahabah. In fact the following is the sayings of the revered Imams.

Ja'far narrated from his father, Mu ammad al-Baqir, that a man came to his grandfather, Zain al-'Abidin, and said, "Tell me about Abu Bakr!" He said, "You mean as-Siddiq?" The man said, "How do you call him as-Siddiq when he is against you, the Family of the Prophet (s)?" He replied, "Woe to you. The Prophet (s) called him as-Siddiq, and Allah accepted his title of as-Siddiq. If you want to come to me, keep the love of Abu Bakr and 'Umar in your heart."

Ja'far said, "The best intercession that I hope for is the intercession of Abu Bakr as-Siddiq (ra)." From him is reported also the following invocation: "O Allah, You are my Witness that I love Abu Bakr and I love 'Umar and if what I am saying is not true may Allah cut me off from the intercession of Mu ammad (saw)."

About the twelveth Shia Imam, Sunni’s believe that he was not born, as the 11th Imam Hassan Al Askari (ra) died without any issue.

All the Shia Imams (ra) though being a great source of knowledge among other many notables have not written any books on Fiqh or other Islamic Sciences.

Fiqah Jafferiyyah though attributed to Imam Sadiq (ra) was not compiled by him.

10

Based upon a few respectful and reasoned pm's from certain Guppies participating in this thread, 5Abi and I have decided to re-open this thread. Note it has undergone some important editing.

We are giving you guys one more chance to utilize this thread in a constructive manner. Please note, if you do not take advantage of this opportunity and the thread returns to slinging insults at others and offending the religious sensibilities of your fellow Guppies, then you will have forced the thread into being closed permanently. It will not be re-opened a second time.

Please keep this discussoin to the point. Any criticism of ANY beliefs will lead the thread to be closed.

11

:salam:

there was some confusion regarding qateelen e usman…just to keep record straight…son of hadrat abu bakr :razi: was not involved in shadah of hadart usman:razi: …as is commonly known…

waiting for intuit reply …

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *

All the Shia Imams (ra) though being a great source of knowledge among other many notables have not written any books on Fiqh or other Islamic Sciences.

Fiqah Jafferiyyah though attributed to Imam Sadiq (ra) was not compiled by him.

[/QUOTE]

Are these you personel views or all the sunni believe above??

In both cases its against the Moratorium. Please consider to edit your comments. Or a Mod should delete what you posted as they've done some important editing to this post but maybe overlook what you posted.

I am a sunni. ** But because of the knowledge I have taken from both Shia and Sunni Ullema and the books of both schools of thoughts** , I dont agree with your above comments *that Shia Imam have not written any books on Fiqh or other Islamic Sciences and about the founder of Fiqah-e-Jafferia. *

May Allah show us all the truth!! *Specially me who is trying to learn the truth and getting closer to the right path every day. *

Green = Edited

13

Ibn Sadique:
Ibn Sadique wrote excellent as per true Sunni concepts. However some Nasbies don’t agree with it. I will invite Mr. Rehman1 to read the document and try to understand the sunni concepts atleast.

Fiqah e jafferiya is not like fiqah e Hanfi. After Imam Jaffer(AS) 5 more imams came and one is still alive and will appear before the day of doom.

The differences were only on political level, this we can only understand if we value the religion and religious leaders correctly and their influence on the society. Anyway you agreed that Shia Imams had different opinion politically rather religiously than other Muslim scholars even many studied in their school.

bao bihari :
Upon this doubt some people did what Muhammad bin Abi Bakar. After Muhammad bin Abi Bakar how those people were treated who favored him. Do some more research for your records.

14

^^ I am sorry if I had given the wrong impression, the political differences were among the partisans - those who were clamoring for power. The political differences were among the partisans of Bani Hashim and Bani Umaiyah. There were no doctrinal differences among Muslims at the time. There was no such thing as 'Shias' and Sunnis' as we know them today.

The 'Shia' Imams (ra) were very stringently apolitical. It is well documented that they shunned politics and kept themselves very far away from politics and kept themselves busy in teaching of the knowledge of Islam. Otherwise the fact that Imam Abu Hanifah (ra) and Imam Malik (ra) having studied under the ‘Shia’ Imams would have been Shias.

The Sunnis only take knowledge from 'Shia Imams' (ra) which is stated in their [Sunni's ] Hadith books and NOT what is stated from them in the Shia Hadith books.

The Concept of Imamate was developed much later, around 1000 AD. (Approximately.)

[QUOTE]
there was some confusion regarding qateelen e usman......just to keep record straight..........son of hadrat abu bakr was not involved in shadah of hadart usman ......as is commonly known.....
[/QUOTE]

Mohammed ibn Abi Bakr, though he was one of the agitators, was not involved in actual murder of Hazrat Usman Al Ghani (ra). He did in fact enter the room of Hazrat Usman (ra) and put his hand to the beard of Hazrat Usman (ra), and when Hazrat Usman retorted him by saying to the effect that: “This would have extremely annoyed your esteemed father if he saw you now.” Hearing this Mohammed bin Abi Bakr covered his face in shame and ran away.

[QUOTE]
However some Nasbies don’t agree with it.
[/QUOTE]

Please refrain from using this offensive word; Do you see any one using Rafidi for you?

I think I have said all that I have to say about this thread; I have said what I have learned about beliefs of Mainstream Muslims (Sunnis) regarding the ‘Shia Imams’. The reason for the inverted comas is to show that Sunnis don’t take them to be exclusively to be Imams of the Shia .

Others who are much better knowledgeable can correct me. I have NOT stated anything that I would consider as my ‘personal view’.

15

:salam:

jazakallah brother…very well written…i would like add one more sentence regarding qateelen e usman…hadrat abi bakr then infact tried to stop the others from doin this act…
those who were involved in hadrat usman :razi: killing directly were murdered at the point…
INTUIT:
Intuit can u plz explain …what do u want..

i agree with what is said by imams…adding one more thing that these imams throughout thier lives lived like normal sunnis…hadart ali :razi: infact naming his sons after sahbah ..usman-abubakr-omer-…and was involved in all major decsion making proces of other khulfah e rashideen…same was the case with other imams…

imam jaffer was one of the teacher of imam abu hanifa…

:wsalam:

PS:…i am not critising …just stating what sunnis believe…

16

Dear inuit,

I am the only one here who is disagreeing what Ibn Sadique posted.
Care to explain what I quoted above. Because of my disagreement with Ibn Sadique’s comment a reader could take this impression that I am a Nasibi. :nono4: Which I am not Alhamdu Lillah.

Just to clerify my point I have edited my above post. Please take a look at the text in green.

And yeah No offend taken bro/sis??? :konfused:

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
The Concept of Imamate was developed much later, around 1000 AD. (Approximately.)
[/QUOTE]
Prove that this concept is NOT from Quran and Hadith. Explain the term Imam which is used in Quran and Hadith which is since beginning. To know about Shia concept of imamat please refer to the shia websites. Also clarify about the concepts which are developed among Ahle Sunnah much later.

Do Ahle Sunnah Believe in coming Imam Mehdi. Is this concept developed sometime later?

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
Prove that this concept is NOT from Quran and Hadith. Explain the term Imam which is used in Quran and Hadith which is since beginning. To know about Shia concept of imamat please refer to the shia websites. Also clarify about the concepts which are developed among Ahle Sunnah much later.

Do Ahle Sunnah Believe in coming Imam Mehdi. Is this concept developed sometime later?
[/QUOTE]

The topic of this thread is ‘Sunni beliefs regarding the Shia Imams’ and not Shia Concept of Imamate so let’s leave it to that unless you have or can add any useful info to the topic at hand.

There are thousands of ‘Sunni’ Websites and if you visit them you will be surprised that Imamate and Khilaafate and not even mentioned at all as it is not the ‘core’ of Sunni Beliefs unlike that of Shia. If you were to visit Sunni websites that ‘specialize’ in Shia/Sunni Dogmatics, they have tackled the issue of Imamate/Khilaafate very well.

Sunnis do believe in coming of Imam Mahdi (ra) and these beliefs are at variance to that of Shia Beliefs, in fact Shia Mahdi and Sunni Mahdi are two separate identities.

19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *

There are thousands of ‘Sunni’ Websites and if you visit them you will be surprised that Imamate and Khilaafate and not even mentioned at all as it is not the ‘core’ of Sunni Beliefs unlike that of Shia. If you were to visit Sunni websites that ‘specialize’ in Shia/Sunni Dogmatics, they have tackled the issue of Imamate/Khilaafate very well.
[/QUOTE]
The current wave of Sunni Scholars, which is tilting towards Salfies(Wahabism) because of getting inspired through media and some freely distributed stuff in their territories. This is what they are doing to support wrongly-based kingdom. They saluted every up-rising sun, like Saud, Sadam and many more. They used religion to kill their political enemies on mass scale and to straighten their kingdom. Now after 70-80 years an anti-kindom wave in the shape of Osama is coming up to stop that Drama.

After realizing the truth, now they are also reviewing their thoughts and changing their concepts. Before sometime they went so far, even that they wrote books in the honor of those kings and forgot the teachings of Islam.

However true Sunnies which are much more in number. Are far different from these ones. They love Ahe Bait (AS) and 12 imams of Muslims. Even they use their names as Waseela in duas. I met them personally in Pakistan.

20

**

:k: Thank you for trying to stay on topic and for posting a respectful reply. Much appreciated.