Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
Everyone is littering the thread about who is right and who is wrong. My question to those who think those ladies did good, did they change the lives of those prostitutes into something better? They cut the tree but did not uproot it. Pakistani.
Sensible approach!
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
LOL...cry foul when one party commits a crime...the rather laughable one of kidnapin' those who run a brothel...yet write off brothels as a fact of life. Sorry folks, I just can't get my head around that.
You hate the religious more than those who abduct children and force them into prositituion. Yeah...I get it.
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
This is probably their anger and frustration against Musharraf! As they see him as a patron of these things! Musharraf who has beaten Mullahs on many front.
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
Yup…because the cops ain’t doing squat all. Unless they get their cut…
If you want to play the law and order angle, at least demonstrate a reasonable baseline for it. Otherwise, I’m rootin for mad max…or maxine…
Oh as if that’s not done dude…or do you think it’s a great big tea party up in the north? :halo:
But yeah…why the hell aren’t those groups outlawed and reigned in? Do you smell that? The foul stench of institutionalized corruption…reeks, don’t it?
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
I would like to add, incomplete solutions like these go nowhere. The right thing would have been to get these prostitutes something preferably decent for earning a living then close the brothel.
THe brothel owners, the pimps, were the targets not the prostitutes themselves. I admit, the students probably are ignorant of their plight...but I agree...nothing but sympathy should be given to the true victims here (i.e. the sex slaves themselves...they are for the most part not prostitutes as they have not chosen this "career" for themselves...let us at least be brave enought to admit this).
Please refer to an earlier post where I make my stance on this clear.
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
going on tangents still does not change the fact that vigilante 'justice' is not something to be supported.
no 'reasonable' baseline is needed, its simple logic. no one gave these psychos teh right ot be the judge and the jury and go kidnap some people. NO matter how bad they allegedly were..period.
I have never supported vigilante actions whether they were psychos like jamiaat, idiots like MQM or morons like jiye sindh. heck, I did not even support these disappearances of ppl under musharraf regime, I am not about to support the illegal actions of a bunch of psycho chics. ..atleast I am consistent :)
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
picoico... ever heard the phrase 'innocent until proven guilty'?
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
pic, I remember your posts from A LONG time ago, and I don't remember them being so emotionally driven or even so ... maulvi-esque.
Anyway, I don't see why you're getting upset. No one here has said that brothels are a fact of life, and let them be. We're not shocked that someone is trying to end the phenomenon of brothels in Pakistan, when they're clearly illegal and immoral anyway.
Its the way its been done that is SO shocking. These students don't have any legal authority. There has been no trial. No representation for these women. All we know is that one lady, her daughter, and her daughter-in-law are kidnapped.
Now WHAT these ladies were really doing in their house - who knows? Maybe they were running a brothel, maybe they were running a dance studio, maybe they were running a music class. Who knows? I sure don't, because I don't see any kind of public proof or evidence.
Secondly, its the violent nature of the crime. Kidnapping and holding them hostage. For what? And then when two of their teachers are taken, they retaliate by taking two officers?
Are they trying to fight a war with other muslims? Don't they know that a civil war like this is wrong, and HIGHLY condemnable in Islam?
Third, the idea that they took only the females involved in this brother surprises me. What kind of religious justice punishes a female committing sin, and lets the guys go? Who were the guys visiting these brothels? Are they going to be kidnapped too?
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
yep the foul stench of institutionalized coruption reeks. we have had shahi mohalla in existence throughout the history of Pakistan, even when mard e momin mard e haq..zia ul haq was islamizing pakistan. forget enlightened moderation, as ppl were askd to do "jihad", the mohalla was doing brisk business.
and then what is to be expected of our religious political parties. when their leaders are found sandwiched between 2 chicas.
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
My question to those who think those ladies did good, did they change the lives of those prostitutes into something better? They cut the tree but did not uproot it. They stopped it but did not eliminate it. It will sprout elsewhere.
This sounds like an argument to turn a blind eye to it, unless one can find the silver bullet solution. Such a solution doesn't exist.
I think Faisal was spot on...regardless of who you root for, the law enforcement is so broken (they seem to be willing to beat the crap out of a people in a news office...but could care less about people who go around Pakistan abducting little girls and forcing them into prostitution) that people are just getting fed up.
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
sandwhiched between what? what's this about?
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
In my view they did the right thing:snooty:
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
Its the way its been done that is SO shocking. These students don't have any legal authority. There has been no trial. No representation for these women. All we know is that one lady, her daughter, and her daughter-in-law are kidnapped.
Now WHAT these ladies were really doing in their house - who knows? Maybe they were running a brothel, maybe they were running a dance studio, maybe they were running a music class. Who knows? I sure don't, because I don't see any kind of public proof or evidence.
oh proof and all, but that would be common sense PCG.
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
picoico... ever heard the phrase 'innocent until proven guilty'?
Sadly, brothels operate in the open. And since it's apparently these students who are charged with a crime, shall we presume their intent was pure, until proven otherwise?
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
pic, unlike the ladies who have been kidnapped for whom there is no open and documented proof of their activities inside their home...there is undeniable evidence and documentation of what the girls of Jamia Hafsa have done, and how they've broken the law. Every newspaper in town is writing about it.
However, yes, your point is well taken. The girls of Jamia Hafsa should also be charged with a crime and brought to court to defend themselves, and they too have right to an attorney.
See, its not so hard to think equitably.
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
So now they have taken law into their hands!
Is there something such as 'law' in the Banana Republic of Pakistan...what happened to the Chief Justice..?
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
Sadly, brothels operate in the open. And since it's apparently these students who are charged with a crime, shall we presume their intent was pure, until proven otherwise?
You are confused, the students CLEARLY broke the law (HENCE THEY ARE GULTY, GOT THAT) not the accused people and NO I have lived in Islamabad all my life, and there are no such public brothels. These idiotic people were doing this just to create a scene after how their heads got messed when they had burqa clad women with AK47s doing badmashi with the CDA bulldozing teams.
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
pic, unlike the ladies who have been kidnapped for whom there is no open and documented proof of their activities inside their home...there is undeniable evidence and documentation of what the girls of Jamia Hafsa have done, and how they've broken the law. Every newspaper in town is writing about it.
However, yes, your point is well taken. The girls of Jamia Hafsa should also be charged with a crime and brought to court to defend themselves, and they too have right to an attorney.
See, its not so hard to think equitably.
Had these ladies not been a part of that organization, it would hardly be news.
The point is, people would rather disparage the religious than those who run brothels. Qualifying that with "alleged" is a bit silly; if indeed the intent was to cause a commotion for the sake of it, then why these two particular women? Why this particular house? That brothels operate in the open is not a secret...that nothing is done about them is also not a secret.
That people would rather see these students get punished, or see them as a greater threat to Pakistani society than slavers of fellow citizens, smacks of sectarian lunacy.
I am playing the devils advocate here. I could care less if these students get charged with treason and hung. I have openly stated my political views in the past (namely, the state can ill afford to have either it's domestic policy or foreign policy contracted out to, or dictated by, non-state actors), so yes..the police would be in the right to maintain law and order.
But a partial application of the law is not an application of the law at all. It is disingenuous at best to passionately, and hatefully, point out the illegality of the actions of these students, while nothing could be more demonstrative of a systematic break down of law and order in Pakistan than the long standing proliferation and open operation of brothels, often with cooperation with those in law enforcement no less. This, without a whisper of concern for this dismal state of affairs. So, I doubt what irks people here is the break down of law and order.
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
Is there something such as 'law' in the Banana Republic of Pakistan...what happened to the Chief Justice..?
That all has been done lawfully!
Re: Students raid Islamabad brothel
That all has been done lawfully!
Sure, whatever floats your dinghy mate! now, you will also find some reason to legitimize Musharraf's rule..right?