Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back...

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
141

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back…

Hey guys…..you probably never thought a guppy like MyVoice would come to the defense of Irem. But….there is some truth in what she says.

Even Congress has recognized the relatively high percentages of foreign born students in the engineering and science areas.

**As the number of U.S. science and engineering students declines, our dependence on foreign students grows. According to the National Science Foundation’s Science and Engineering Indicators (2002), the percentage of foreign-born individuals among scientists and engineers in the U.S. is growing at all degree levels, in all sectors, and in most fields. Especially high percentages are found in engineering (45 percent), computer sciences (43 percent) and mathematics (30 percent). **http://www.house.gov/science/hearings/full04/jan23/charter.htm

The thing is though, Americans prefer the Renaissance education which gives them a far broader perspective of life, knowledge, law, politics, understanding, the arts, etc. etc. etc. If we have needed to lock someone in a room talking to a computer for 16 hours a day or find someone to stare at a Petri dish through little microscopes for hours on end, we’ve always been able to suck the best and brightest out of foreign countries to do that and then co-opt them with our money, power, standard of living and economic engine. They have stayed to do what young Americans conceive of as sh*t work.

Third World countries don’t remain poor and backward because they are less materialistic than we are as Irem suggests. We get the best and brightest to come here and then keep them because they don’t want to go back to the hell holes that once were home. We only let the flotsam go home… Those who can’t cut it…. The bottom of the barrel.

There are probably quite a few Stanford educated South Asians who couldn’t cut it here who are exercising their hard work ethic in rice paddies back home. I’m sure each of them is a little bitter that they weren’t chosen to make themselves and us quite rich. Particularly when the white boys and girls worked half as hard to get a degree in sociology and live in big houses and drive fast cars.

Go get em Irem. Keep fighting the good fight on this one.

142

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back...

Irem, I was really impressed by a statement that you made in another thread about racism in America, after reading things you posted here I thought you would have a great deal to say. Your post kind of changed an opinion of you that I had been forming and made me realize that whatever the topic, you try to be as honest as you can. That is rare.

I think you posted some things out of frustration, which is understandable seeing as how people are quick to jump all over anyone with a different opinion. I do think however that you are missing some of what those of us on this side of the fence are trying to say.

Anyone is entitled to an opinion, one of the things that I love about America is that I don't have to censor my remarks and thoughts about things. But with that priviledge comes the responsibility of being aware of and sympathetic of your audience. That is all we are saying.

The sentiments that Ohioguy, storch, others, and even myself at times are how we feel. I don't believe that the rest of the world should bend down and kiss my feet because I am American, but I do believe in common courtesy. I even personally do not support the current political party in power nor their policies, but I will get upset with people lumping us all under the "evil" American banner.

I study and am employed at another Ivy, I see many people from many walks of life protesting the government and it's policies. That is a right that anyone here should and could have. Believe me, the students here are very vocal about a lot. All the more power to them.......

BUT

As a taxpayer and a person who works in a department where we are constantly fighting immigration and this government for students such as yourself (who we believe and hope are an asset), when I hear some of the rhetoric about how evil Americans are, how lawless, how stupid (which is what you indirectly said) from people who have recieved an education here, it is a literal kick in the face. Maybe you mean the way things are run or the current government, but from your posts you say Americans.

It does send an impression of ingratitude, whether you meant it or not.

:) As far as silicon valley and America taking the cream of all countries, well...... That alone should speak for the opportunities here and for the people. Who would want to settle for a place where they are not appreciated, where they cannot abide the culture, or where they cannot grow?

This post was not meant as an attack, so I am hoping you will not see it that way. Just as another view.

143

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

Why? I mean just because the US is a place where a person can live or work means that - that particular person must agree and like all of its policies?

People go to the US and earn - whether it be their money or their grades. I mean its not as if the US government stands at the airport and hands everything on a silver platter to anyone entering.

People work for what they get. I dont think the Americans or rather America does any favours. What I do not understand is why people think it does.

Heck how many of you go to your boss and thank him for your salary? And how many of you agree with his ideas/views/beliefs just because he pays you for a job you do?

Cleaning - Poll
Cleaning - Poll
144

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back…

minah_pa

*But with that priviledge comes the responsibility of being aware of and sympathetic of your audience. That is all we are saying.

The sentiments that Ohioguy, storch, others, and even myself at times are how we feel. I don’t believe that the rest of the world should bend down and kiss my feet because I am American, but I do believe in common courtesy. I even personally do not support the current political party in power nor their policies, but I will get upset with people lumping us all under the “evil” American banner.
*

I never lumped all American people under any “evil” banner :slight_smile:
I never said all Americans are bad. Did I?
Tell me, which posts of mine did you find offensive?

*rhetoric about how evil Americans are, how lawless, how stupid (which is what you indirectly said) from people who have recieved an education here, it is a literal kick in the face. Maybe you mean the way things are run or the current government, but from your posts you say Americans.
*

minah_pa, this is a World Affairs forum, or Pak Affairs, when I come in here and say Americans or go to Pak Affairs and say Indians, what do you think I’m referring to? Obviously, the government.
As far as I know, I don’t think I ever bad mouthed the American nation in a single post on this forum. If you can find one, please show me.

Lawless? I didn’t say that.
Stupid? I said you guys don’t pick tough majors, isn’t that true? I have seen that American natives (white people mostly) take the academicaly easier route, by studying artsy subjects and avoiding sciences.

As far as silicon valley and America taking the cream of all countries, well… That alone should speak for the opportunities here and for the people. Who would want to settle for a place where they are not appreciated, where they cannot abide the culture, or where they cannot grow?
*
I never said America lacked opportunities for people minah_pa.

This post was not meant as an attack, so I am hoping you will not see it that way. Just as another view.

*Nope, don’t worry I don’t see it as an attack and thanks for your post :slight_smile:

myvoice

The thing is though, Americans prefer the Renaissance education which gives them a far broader perspective of life, knowledge, law, politics, understanding, the arts, etc. etc. etc. If we have needed to lock someone in a room talking to a computer for 16 hours a day or find someone to stare at a Petri dish through little microscopes for hours on end, we’ve always been able to suck the best and brightest out of foreign countries to do that and then co-opt them with our money, power, standard of living and economic engine. They have stayed to do what young Americans conceive of as sht work. *

These taks form the backbone of all processes. They’re not sh*t work, they’re TOUGH work.

Third World countries don’t remain poor and backward because they are less materialistic than we are as Irem suggests. We get the best and brightest to come here and then keep them because they don’t want to go back to the hell holes that once were home. We only let the flotsam go home… Those who can’t cut it…. The bottom of the barrel.

There are probably quite a few Stanford educated South Asians who couldn’t cut it here who are exercising their hard work ethic in rice paddies back home. I’m sure each of them is a little bitter that they weren’t chosen to make themselves and us quite rich. Particularly when the white boys and girls worked half as hard to get a degree in sociology and live in big houses and drive fast cars.
*

LOL :rolleyes:

Seminole

*Irem, the type of stereotyping that you are defending has been used throughout history to subjegate and demean others. Ok, it is your opinion. But realize that makes you no different than Rush Limbaugh or Franklin Graham when they make state their own opposing narrow-minded opinioons and present them as fact.
*

To YOU they are narrow minded. I believe in them however.
I never demeaned or subjugated anyone. I have always believed in treating everyone nicely, no matter which race they belong to.

145

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back...

anyways, guys, i'm going to sleep...will continue with replying to this thread sometime later...

bye! :)

146

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back…

I’m sure the work is important. Just like delivering the mail on time and fixing the potholes in the street is also important. Too many effite snobs who like to consider themselves as grandiose always seem to elevate their own self importance in the cosmic sphere by denigrating the occupation of others. If someone wasn’t there to wash and disinfect those petri dishes, most eggheads would crack under the pressure and would soon find green slime covering their little clean rooms.

And you think the work is ** TOUGH??? ** . Try working in a shipping room of a non-air conditioned linen factory packing and unpacking boxes and loading and unloading trucks for a day or two. Or working on a road construction crew. Or digging ditches. Blue collar work is “TOUGH.” Watching bacteria grow in a plate is about as “tough” as watching paint dry.

Irem, my dearest little brown Stanford grad, as you grow older, wiser and become more worldly, you’ll probably come to realize that there are many forms of accomplishment in this world. I recognize my dad as the hardest working most accomplished person I have ever met. Not because he studied science at some university. But because, as a son of immigrants, he escaped the death sentence of the mines in Michigan, survived combat in a World War, worked during the day and attended community college at night, raised a family, provided enough to enable his two sons to complete graduate schools with higher degrees and was a great loving and caring father. Whatever achievements I attain will never come to me “HARDER” or “TOUGHER” than his achievements.

Being a hard worker does not come from skin color, religion, race, country of birth or any external factor over which we have no control. It comes from within and from a burning motivation and desire to achieve and accomplish some goal.

BTW, If there were any rice paddies in Pakistan, I’m sure that you would have collected more grains than anyone else out in the field today.

147

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back...

MV was your dad a brown Pakistani?

148

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back...

hopeless, just hopeless

149

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back…

My grandparents came from Eastern Europe circa 1900.

150

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back…

Well Slavs are the blacks of europe..all good my brother. :flower1:

Escaping the genocide by the turks I assume?

151

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back…

After working all day in the mines or on the farms, everybody’s skin was pretty black in Michigan too back then. People didn’t fight because of how they looked in those days. They fought because it was fun. And also because after a few drinks of moonshine made from potatos, it seemed like the proper thing to do.

I don’t think anyone knew what the word “genocide” meant back in the early 1900s. All they knew was that someone didn’t particularly like them where they were and that America offered hope. So they left.

152

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back...

I think it's standard practice ..in the ways to beat an empire..get an education from them and use it against themm..

153

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back...

you guys would get along much better if you hit the bong a few times. :D

154

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back...

I formally lodge a protest about this streotyping that both camps and the assorted people are making about foriegn students

1)not all foriegn students harbor ill will towards US, a number may dislike one thing or the other ranging from obesity and poor mass transit system (excluding NYC, chicago, PHilly etc) to foriegn policy, death penalty or why they call a siisy version of rugby as football

2) Not all foriegn students get scholarships, majority pay out of their own pockets and while the education at universities is still subsidized whether the uni is public or private, the students give back to the local economy through participation in the market, buying stuff paying sales tax, spending money on restaurants (okay..lil ceasers) etc

3) why are we grouping foriegn students as brainiac people majoring in physical scineces and other geeky subjects, while that is true, there are those who shall remain nameless who seldom bothered to show up in their college algebra or intro to biology type classes, who missed ore classes in their sophomore year than they actually attended, who planned ahead for the next fraternity 12 kegger bash but not for the term paper due in a week, who changed their majors every season, and who finally decided to get serious when dad told em that the gravy train was coming to a stop unless the GPA went above 3.0 :)

155

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back...

^ so did you make the 3.5? and why are you stereotyping 12-kegger planners to be sub-3.0?

156

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back…

myvoice hahahah :hehe:
:slight_smile: Well…what did I do to make you so mad? :slight_smile:
I do believe that certain characteristics are truly defined by race and culture and the way a person has been brought up. In the sense that: nobody is born superior by virtue of race, but external environment (which is indeed defined by conutry of birth and upbringing and therefore culture/environment of upbringing) has a large role to play in a person’s personality.
Anyways… your dad sounds like a great man Mashallah.

Zakk ahaaaaaaaaaan :wink:

Mr F
“physical scineces and other geeky subjects”

errr…excuse me? :expressionless:

157

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back…

i understand where your conclusion has come from regarding whites being lazy and desis being hard-working, such an argument would have a decent amount of support…however, you must realize that this view is extremely myopic. i’m sure you’ve observed study habits at university, break-down of how many of each are at the library late at night, number of hours in the lab, etc. etc., and i would come to the same conclusion as you.

But to use such observations to conclude who is a harder worker is very irresponsible. NOWHERE in the entire world will you find a better institutionalized work ethic than in America and specifically corporate America (interchange for “whites”, as this has all been installed by white america). When you contrast this with the natural work culture of desis, which is founded upon the relentless pursuit of the shortcut and minimal focus on quality (surely these are generalizations, but you cannot honestly say you don’t know what i’m talking about)…a completely different conclusion can be made.

there is no way to evaluate these things, and certainly not by university observations.