Re: Stories about talebanization in Karachi are orchestrated [split: Whore of Swat]
LJ, remember Don Kamal's paid visit to the US, with extra protocols? Things happen for a reason, he wasnt being shown all this generosity because hes some extraordinary or khoobsurat chap.
p.s. the story i was referring to was dubbed as a raid against taliban, and it was as fishy as the lochness monster itself.
Re: Stories about talebanization in Karachi are orchestrated [split: Whore of Swat]
thats a strawperson you got there with you. just because you can point to a specific fishy story doesnt mean you dont need to address questions about this one.
secondly i need a little more to buy into your conspiracy than Don Kamals protocol filled visit. One would think that if they're hatching a deep conspiracy like that the first thing they'd do is not have those 'extra' public protocols.
Please address the questions I asked of you if you intend to defend your position.
I can understand there being talibanisation in places such as Sohrab goth but there is no talibanisation in other areas of karachi with large pakhtun population such as Keamari, Banaras. I doubt theres any talibanisation in Sohrab Goth too BUT a number of different writers representing different points of view actually claiming there was talibanisation.
Theres no way the whole of Karachi could be talibanised - its a large city with a very diverse population. I personally believe there maybe 2 elements involved:-
thugs belonging to mqm/pakhtun groups who are trying to take control over the city ...drugs, transport, smuggling...from karachi it all becomes internationalised ......mqm population is not increasing as fast as the pakhtun population....
outside interference playing on fears and stoking up the fires of hatred and severely destabilising pakistan in the long-run......theres a lot of ethnic dissatisfaction suddenly surfacing and exploited by outsiders..coupled witht he fact that pakistani authorities and government are severely incompetent and have let the situation brew for 61.5 years.
Re: Stories about talebanization in Karachi are orchestrated [split: Whore of Swat]
Good thread, shows the complete disassociation with reality of the pro jihad/PTI/JI group.
Re: Stories about talebanization in Karachi are orchestrated [split: Whore of Swat]
Sohrab Goth is not talibanized. There is a building in which terrorist elements were roosting and hiding weapons - that doesn't make an entire region of a city Talibanized. But it does put the city at increased risk for Talibanization - because just as they infiltrated into the villages in NWFP and eventually were powered enough to pull down Pakistani flags, post up their own, and enforce their own writ of law within a sovereign nation, they can easily do that in Karachi too. If not now, at least, sometime in the near future it can happen.
This is dangerous anti-state activity that we're talking about. There may be some evidence that the Pakistani government may have been secretly supporting the Taliban under Musharraf's regime - but I have not seen that proof. Its plausible, because anything is plausible, but I haven't seen any evidence of it, so no thanks - I don't feel that the blame needs to be placed squarely on Musharraf's shoulders.
However, it is well known now, after news has leaked out - that Nawaz Sharif's gov't and Benazir Bhutto's govt did support the Taliban while they were roosting in Afghanistan. That is completely unpalatable to me, and so it doesn't make sense that we are blaming Musharraf for all this nonsense, when the party of the Taliban were clearly created not by Musharraf's government, but in fact, by Zia. Do I support Zia's regime? No, he was crazy.
Now, if evidence unsurfaces of clear support from Musharraf, then yes, that will drastically change my opinion of him. But as far as I can tell, Musharraf knew that these forces of the Taliban were piling up on the border, he was doing what he could to keep them contained, and he was doing what he could to fight terrorism in Afghanistan. Its only common sense that the terrorists would run straight into Pakistan.
Now, we can keep playing the blame game, but the fact of the matter is this goes back to well before even Zia's time - these FATA areas, etc were never well governed. NWFP and Balochistan have been sorely ignored over time by every government that came into power - not something that Jinnah would have wanted. They were suppressed - they still live like how people lived in the past century - they cannot progress forward because the focus of development was always on the eastern part of the country, not the western. The ignorance and backwardness of the tribals themselves have also contributed to the problem - their understanding of Islam was so poor that they could not tell that the Taliban had not one ounce of understanding of Islam and were clearly not muslims - and the Taliban had ALREADY shown their true colors in Afghanistan, and there were thousands of AFghani refugees in NWFP that could tell everyone the stories of what the Taliban were doing. And despite that, the Taliban still somehow have found support in NWFP? How does that work?
So, lets place the blame where it squarely lies - it lies on the shoulders of people who are now long dead and in their graves, and it lies on the shoulders of tribal elders, who in their infinite wisdom of grade 5 knowledge and no interpretation of the Quran welcomed in people who masqueraded around as muslims and whose deeds were known widely in the region from their past in Afghanistan as being anything but muslim. Now their own people are paying with their dear lives for their incredible "hospitality". Hospitality is an Islamic concept but its not the same as housing anti-state and treason-oriented elements who have no concept of humanity and civility.
I hope that's clear enough for you Data. None of your conspiracy theories, or mine, nevertheless, can excuse what's going on in Karachi and the clear extremism now increasing in the city.
I fear another Lal Masjid in Karachi.
** especially after how they lost one of their seats to the ANP this time around (a clear signal). **
For correction of record, MQM did not loose any of its seats to ANP. The seats won by ANP in Sindh PA were previously held by JUI F.
Re: Stories about talebanization in Karachi are orchestrated [split: Whore of Swat]
Some of the religious schools in Karachi are strong supporters or they have symphty with taleban. Interestingly these schools are run by Urdu speaking ulemas.
Some of the religious schools in Karachi are strong supporters or they have symphty with taleban. Interestingly these schools are run by Urdu speaking ulemas.
exactly what i was talking about.
Re: Stories about talebanization in Karachi are orchestrated [split: Whore of Swat]
^ that makes it even easier for pir altaf to orchestrate more 'taaaalibunnnnizat-ion' of Karachi, and more imaginary MQM Taliban encounters.
chi and the clear extremism now increasing in the city.
I fear another Lal Masjid in Karachi.
Sure and you might want to look up who appointed who in Lal Masjid. Do you even know the Ghazi brothers were Govt employees? Your Musharraf's beloved religious safeer was quite a chammi buddy of these Ghazi brothers. Seriously, you need to read up more. Just dont assume whatever you think HAS to be the truth.
^ that makes it even easier for pir altaf to orchestrate more 'taaaalibunnnnizat-ion' of Karachi, and more imaginary MQM Taliban encounters.
why does it make it easier? presumably you dont believe hardline taleban sympathising mullas are part of Pir sahab's vote bank, or that everyone urdu speaking must support them?
they're an inconvenient wart in MQM's attempt to incorporate it into their pre-existing racial politics against pathans. and an indication that the problem runs much deeper than your MQM-nonMQM dichotomy based world.
btw i await any sort of semi-realistic attempt at explaining this encounter with taleban people, in terms of agents and actors.
Re: Stories about talebanization in Karachi are orchestrated [split: Whore of Swat]
Ghazi brothers were ISI agents, this much is widely known. But they were ISI agents that turned rogue against the government. Things like that happen, you know. Just pick up the Quran and read about how the Devil came into existence. Betrayal and treason is not a 2009 concept.
Secondly, this issue about MQM and urdu-speaking taleban sympathizers - what is this hogwash? Don't get me wrong, I'm no MQM supporter. But the fact that you're seeing urdu-speaking people among the Taleban supporters means nothing. In case you didn't notice, terrorism is a equal opportunity employer - anyone, and I mean ANYONE, can go and become a terrorist. Why do people think its only arabs or pushtuns?
Re: Stories about talebanization in Karachi are orchestrated [split: Whore of Swat]
wellll mam! i also add my comments that where is the writ of govt? there is no writ of govt and law even in govt so how can we blame others for that? first eliminate law breakers from within govt then u desire to enforce law in the country, no doubt that extremists are doing terrorism but many govt personnels and politicians themselves are widely involved in terrorist activities and providing support to foreign agenciz for terrorism in pakistan then why do u only blame Talbanization for terrorism. infact we all are hypocrites that we have left the lesson of Islam and we think as all Islam lovers are terrorists.
why does it make it easier? presumably you dont believe hardline taleban sympathising mullas are part of Pir sahab's vote bank, or that everyone urdu speaking must support them?
they're an inconvenient wart in MQM's attempt to incorporate it into their pre-existing racial politics against pathans. and an indication that the problem runs much deeper than your MQM-nonMQM dichotomy based world.
btw i await any sort of semi-realistic attempt at explaining this encounter with taleban people, in terms of agents and actors.
Oh you would be surprised, go look up some old threads as to how many madrassahs in KArachi were throwing support to MQM, in exchange for protection and recognition. Jamai-binoriya (sp?) was one of them. Nothing in KArachi can happen without the consent of Pir Altaf. not even taaaalibunnizaaaatun.
Ghazi brothers ISI agents! Now Ive heard it all! 
Do you have any proof? I can certainly back up my theory with proof, i.e. them being appointed by the Govt. Also, you conveniently left out the part about your favourite dictator’s religious munshi supporting those two? Are you telling me he was the one responsible for making lal masjid what it was?
I don’t want to either defend or oppose PCG’s comments but why were those guys “appointed by the govt.”? Who were these brothers (and their father) supporting? I am sure they were not there to help ministry of petroleum 
Oh you would be surprised, go look up some old threads as to how many madrassahs in KArachi were throwing support to MQM, in exchange for protection and recognition. Jamai-binoriya (sp?) was one of them. Nothing in KArachi can happen without the consent of Pir Altaf. not even taaaalibunnizaaaatun.
None of the terrorist supporting extremist madrassahs are aligned with MQM. But yes, moderate madrassahs are indeed aligned and encouraged by MQM. Learn something about Jamia Binoria before commenting.
Your claim that nothing can happen without consent of Altaf in Karachi is obviously a lie. All anyone has to do is look up Karachi's history to find out why that is such a blatant lie.
Ghazi brothers used to transport weapons under the guidance of ISI. Everybody knows their past connections to establishment. That is why they were activated by the right wing rogue ISI elements during Lal masjid saga.
I don't want to either defend or oppose PCG's comments but why were those guys "appointed by the govt."? Who were these brothers (and their father) supporting? I am sure they were not there to help ministry of petroleum :)
Why? Alot of Masjid Imams are hired by the Govt. Also, you might wanna direct this question to the religious musheer during the last Govt. I think they were grade 17 officers, based on scale.
None of the terrorist supporting extremist madrassahs are aligned with MQM. But yes, moderate madrassahs are indeed aligned and encouraged by MQM. Learn something about Jamia Binoria before commenting.
Your claim that nothing can happen without consent of Altaf in Karachi is obviously a lie. All anyone has to do is look up Karachi's history to find out why that is such a blatant lie.
lol kehkashan, if he endorses Taliban today, I am sure you'll say the same thing about them too, just like how zardari became a saint over night.