altaf bhai seems to think otherwise, havent you heard his orchestrated stories about taaaalibuni-zatioon in karachi?
Re: Whore of Swat
KARACHI: Two policemen killed in ‘anti-Taliban operation’
By Tahir Siddiqui
http://www.dawn.com/2009/01/16/images/local01.jpg
KARACHI, Jan 15: Two policemen were killed and seven other law-enforcers, including the chief of the Anti-Violent Crime Cell and two officials of an intelligence agency, were wounded on Thursday in what the police said was a crackdown on pro-Taliban militants at Sohrab Goth.
The police said that more than 79 suspects were arrested and a sizeable number of sophisticated weapons were seized following a pre-dawn raid on the hideout of the terrorists belonging to certain banned religious outfits. None of the suspects, however, was hurt in the operation.
Witnesses said the AVCC SSP, Farooq Awan, and two officers of an intelligence agency reached the spot in a private car in the small hours of Thursday, while a heavy contingent of police waited some 100 metres away.
They said SSP Awan and the intelligence officers were encircled by the suspected terrorists as they got down from their car.
The witnesses said the terrorists held the three law-enforcers hostage at gunpoint and shot them in the leg after ascertaining their identity.
They said the police mobile vans rushed to the spot as they heard gunshots and the terrorists fired volleys of bullets on them with sub-machine guns, killing a head constable and a constable and injuring four others.
http://www.dawn.com/2009/01/16/images/local01b.jpg
The witnesses said the attackers fled the scene before the police reached the spot.
The killed policemen received several bullet wounds, the fatal ones being to the head.
The wounded SSP and officers were shifted to the Aga Khan University Hospital where sources told Dawn that they had received bullet wounds in their lower limbs. They said their wounds were not life-threatening.
The capital city police officer, Wasim Ahmed, told Dawn that the operation was jointly launched by the AVCC and a sensitive agency that had information about the presence of a large number of suspects in the locality.
“The area was a safe haven for terrorists who were planning massive terrorist activities in the city,” he said, adding that “the terrorists have now been flushed out from the vicinity.”
The CCPO said the police had occupied a three-floor hideout, known as Mohmand building, situated a kilometre behind Al-Asif Square at Sohrab Goth. “We have set up a police post in the [Mohmand] building,” he added.
Mr Ahmed said the police had been receiving reports for a long time that terrorist elements linked with religious outfits were active in the area. “It’s a big success as we have put the terrorists on the run.”
The CCPO said the raiding party was accompanied by a ‘counter assault team’.
The city police chief said the area was inhabited mainly by Afghans and people from Waziristan and Tajikistan.
He said the terrorists were also involved in several criminal activities. “The arrested suspects include a man who was involved in the kidnapping of a Karachi-based industrialist for ransom late last year.”
Meanwhile, area police said they had not been in the loop about the operation conducted by the AVCC.
An official, who did not wish to be named, said the Sohrab Goth police reached the spot sometime after the incident.
Sources said at least two police platoons took part in the raid.
The Sohrab Goth police said a case would be registered on the complaint of an officer of the AVCC.
The inspector-general of police, Sultan Salahuddin Babar Khattak, announced a Rs1 million compensation for each of the two policemen killed in the operation.
He made this announcement after attending the funeral prayers of Head Constable Fayaz and Constable Akhtar Muneer at the police headquarters in Garden. He also announced a job in the Sindh police for a family member of the each deceased.
The provincial police chief also announced Rs100,000 each for the injured police officials.
KARACHI: Two policemen killed in ‘anti-Taliban operation’ -DAWN - Local; January 16, 2009
interesting …the ssp is an awan..a tribe which is found in north punjab, nwfp and kashmir…awans generally inhabit mainwali, attock, chakwal, the peshawar valley, hazara division, and azad kashmir…
Re: Whore of Swat
So what if someone posted a story about Talibani elements in Karachi? It only goes to show how the problem in Swat is not some isolated one that no one, except Swati folks, need to worry about. All of Pakistan should be worried - these idiots have strongholds in each city - except people just don't know about it yet - they're just growing and gaining strength while Pakistanis sit in sheer comfortable ignorance of it all.
Re: Whore of Swat
^ The govt will create this problem whenever they see the need arises and the cash flow stops. The reason why you see this 'taaalib-aaan-izaation aaf karachi' chant is only because those that are clinging on to power need an excuse to do so.
Re: Whore of Swat
Clearly, we are no longer talking about the "whore of swat" anymore. Data, I don't care what the ultimate motive is/was behind the government's crackdown on militants in Pakistan. Just the mere fact that there was an entire hideout of a whole unit of militants in Karachi, stockpiling weapons within a civilian sanctuary with unknown children playing right outside the neighborhood and a fairly liberal society right outside their doors, a society totally ignorant of their increasing presence in the city is nothing short of SCARY.
People need to be made more aware of this - I can guarantee you, most people in the Sohrab Goth area probably didn't even know there was a militant unit in the area. This is complete and sheer irresponsibility of Pakistani security, and also shows the ignorance of the Pakistani people - war is right on their doorsteps and they don't even realize it.
^ The govt will create this problem whenever they see the need arises and the cash flow stops. The reason why you see this 'taaalib-aaan-izaation aaf karachi' chant is only because those that are clinging on to power need an excuse to do so.
who is orchestrating it? the sindh govt or the federal government? and do you feel that the policemen who were killed in that raid were killed by friendly fire or some such thing?
Re: Stories about talebanization in Karachi are orchestrated [split: Whore of Swat]
^ policemen are little pawns, do you think sinister elements in the the Govt cares if they die? Trust me, they dont.
Clearly, we are no longer talking about the "whore of swat" anymore. Data, I don't care what the ultimate motive is/was behind the government's crackdown on militants in Pakistan. Just the mere fact that there was an entire hideout of a whole unit of militants in Karachi, stockpiling weapons within a civilian sanctuary with unknown children playing right outside the neighborhood and a fairly liberal society right outside their doors, a society totally ignorant of their increasing presence in the city is nothing short of SCARY.
People need to be made more aware of this - I can guarantee you, most people in the Sohrab Goth area probably didn't even know there was a militant unit in the area. This is complete and sheer irresponsibility of Pakistani security, and also shows the ignorance of the Pakistani people - war is right on their doorsteps and they don't even realize it.
Before you talk about the crackdown of militants, can you talk about where these elements came from, who orchestrated deals with them (and then gave the green to attack them), minutes after making deals and then claiming they were behind the attacks, only to be snubbed by their masters after a few hours. Dont just blindly think its good vs evil, because its not.
Re: Stories about talebanization in Karachi are orchestrated [split: Whore of Swat]
Data, I know many hold onto the idea that the ISI and Pakistani governments past and present have been feeding terrorist organizations to fend off Indians on the East and to keep Taliban at bay in Afghanistan - things have completely changed. For the government to be supporting these groups, and then on the other hand, staging attacks on militants at the cost of Pakistani security forces (i.e. normal people), doesnt make a whole lot of sense. If the government was supporting them, they're most likely not now, and if there is any support - its actually probably militants who have crept into government ranks giving secret support to rogue terrorist organizations. I truly do not believe the government of Pakistan, as stupid as they are, would have the primary intention at the higher ranks of leadership to keep feeding the snake of terrorism today - its coming to haunt them like a tranny mess (source of expression: Fashion Runway). If anything it is the pathetic organization of the executive powers of the government that cannot hold their ground in fighting these terrorist networks.
I don't find it to be a stretch of the imagination or some conspiracy that there are terrorist cells in Karachi. They have been there, I would imagine, for some time. On previous visits of mine to Karachi since I was a kid, I have been seeing extremist "gangs" (which is what I like to call them), others refer to them as madrassah students. These are not any madrassah students - you could tell that they weren't normal kids and that that they were part of some gang-like organization that wasn't really being taught about real Islam, based on how they carried themselves in the city of Karachi, and how they made their families live. I am absolutely not surprised that terrorist networks are now being found in Karachi, nor am I surprised that Pakistani security forces are now confronting them, especially with a new government in power in America that is no longer going to be feeding corrupt government officials in Pakistan for showing no results in containing the militants. Not because there is a conspiracy, so much as for the fact that the Pakistani government and its officials are corrupt and have been leaching off international aide, and not producing results, because they're just not good at what they're doing.
So, sorry, I am not buying these conspiracy theories. Pakistani government is too inept to get anything done and the nateeja is in front of you.
.......many hold onto the idea that the ISI and Pakistani governments past and present have been feeding terrorist organizations ...
Yes PCG, this particular idea is now part of the religion practiced by both Islamists (terrorists who justify their dastardly acts in the name of Islam) and Hinduists (religious extremists in India).
Before you talk about the crackdown of militants, can you talk about where these elements came from, who orchestrated deals with them (and then gave the green to attack them), minutes after making deals and then claiming they were behind the attacks, only to be snubbed by their masters after a few hours. Dont just blindly think its good vs evil, because its not.
Yes, yes, it's so hard to tell between good and evil. Such moral ambiguity worthy of a leadership position in PTI or JI.
Obfuscation and deflection, all right out of an Al Qaeda manual. Keep it up.
Anyway, jihadi elements have used Karachi before as well, so it's not surprising, they are doing it again.
Before you talk about the crackdown of militants, can you talk about where these elements came from, who orchestrated deals with them (and then gave the green to attack them), minutes after making deals and then claiming they were behind the attacks, only to be snubbed by their masters after a few hours. Dont just blindly think its good vs evil, because its not.
Okay lets talk about that. Yes Musharraf did all that, Musharraf was bad, he produced them, he funded them, he provided ammunition. Now, is the "blame-game" settled? What do we do from here-on? Should we solve the problem or should we stay happy that atleast we solved the problem of "blame"? How do YOU think this problem can be solved NOW?
^ policemen are little pawns, do you think sinister elements in the the Govt cares if they die? Trust me, they dont.
fine, policemen are pawns.. who killed them? do you feel altaaf bhai had some men impersonating taleban (no doubt with members of mqm-nwfp branch) and they killed the policemen who went looking for them? Or was the police in on it too, and was expecting mqm walay to do the firing?
at what level of government is this being orchestrated. you suggest its altaaf and that they're doing this to stay in power but they're NOT able to do these kind of things by themselves because sindh govt has PPP in it, and Federal govt is PPP. So PPP needs to be in on it too.
So just to clarify, please be specific in what you see as a plausible chain of events behind the orchestration, with more specific orchestrators.
Okay lets talk about that. Yes Musharraf did all that, Musharraf was bad, he produced them, he funded them, he provided ammunition. Now, is the "blame-game" settled? What do we do from here-on? Should we solve the problem or should we stay happy that atleast we solved the problem of "blame"? How do YOU think this problem can be solved NOW?
Havent you seen how every single of these posters (apart from you) on the other thread, maybe with the exception of one other guy do not even admit it was Musharraf and his top generals behind this mess? I mean for crying out loud look at how emotional they got when they read that article, and YET completely chose the last part which talked about who was responsible, just because its someone they admire so much. Unless they admit whose at fault, this problem will not be solved. Do you think the tens of thousands supporting this movement locally in Swat trust the Govt now? Lets make these yes-men admit that their boss was the one who was the cause of the problem, and then have THEM come up with the solution.
fine, policemen are pawns.. who killed them? do you feel altaaf bhai had some men impersonating taleban (no doubt with members of mqm-nwfp branch) and they killed the policemen who went looking for them? Or was the police in on it too, and was expecting mqm walay to do the firing?
Oh come on, one day the bag shouts about talibanization, the next day a press release comes about some mysterious shootout b/w the mqm militia and the talibans. Sorry but I dont buy such news.
[quote]
at what level of government is this being orchestrated. you suggest its altaaf and that they're doing this to stay in power but they're NOT able to do these kind of things by themselves because sindh govt has PPP in it, and Federal govt is PPP. So PPP needs to be in on it too.
[/quote]
In case you didnt know, the PPP and the MQM are partners, they'll do whatever it takes to bring attention to this issue. Simply put, theres no talibainzation in Karachi or anything of that sort, its just being hyped by 'bhai' because he really has no agenda left, especially after ditching the previous govt and supporting this one. This is what corrupt politicians do. This is why Kalabagh surfaced 50,000 times whenever the people's attention needed to be diverted.
[quote]
So just to clarify, please be specific in what you see as a plausible chain of events behind the orchestration, with more specific orchestrators.
[/quote]
Simple, the Americans shying away on the aid. Remember those deals that the last govt pulled with the militants, followed by airstrikes?
Yes, yes, it's so hard to tell between good and evil. Such moral ambiguity worthy of a leadership position in PTI or JI.
Obfuscation and deflection, all right out of an Al Qaeda manual. Keep it up.
Anyway, jihadi elements have used Karachi before as well, so it's not surprising, they are doing it again.
For you, there's only one 'good guy' sitting in London who will make sure, whatever it takes to make this issue a 'real' one so I wont be bothered by your drivel.
When? and Changed, once the monster got out of the cage? right? And also, how are you so sure, dont just tell me you were ‘told’.
read what you wrote before that, you are just contradicting yourself. All you have said in your post is, "i dont think the govt supported or supports them, well maybe they did, but no they did perhaps, no they didnt’. Read what you wrote all over again.
And what do you think about the ‘smart’ Govt of yesterday?
So the gangs you saw 10-20 years ago in Karachi turned into Taliban? What exactly is a Taliban in Karachi, some rogue MQM militia member who had a change of heart?
Yep, the Musharraf govt which created this mess in its 9 years of failure, and then couldnt do anything to get rid of it was rather efficient wasnt it?
Also, you are forgetting the real agenda behind this whole thing, the ethnic cleansing of Karachi. the MQM does not want the Pakhtuns to dominate in that city, especially after how they lost one of their seats to the ANP this time around (a clear signal). The MQM nazim don racist mustafa kamaal in an interview to NPR made it very clear in his ‘they are like extremists all of them’ what hes been ordered by his superior to do so. Even the gora NPR representative thought that was absurd. Do check that interview out. He wants to establish check points so that no more pakhtuns can come and earn a living in the city. .
Havent you seen how every single of these posters (apart from you) on the other thread, maybe with the exception of one other guy do not even admit it was Musharraf and his top generals behind this mess? I mean for crying out loud look at how emotional they got when they read that article, and YET completely chose the last part which talked about who was responsible, just because its someone they admire so much. Unless they admit whose at fault, this problem will not be solved. Do you think the tens of thousands supporting this movement locally in Swat trust the Govt now? Lets make these yes-men admit that their boss was the one who was the cause of the problem, and then have THEM come up with the solution.
Well, if people start blaming current govt only for all these militant problems then I will join you in passing the blame to previous govt(s).
Oh come on, one day the bag shouts about talibanization, the next day a press release comes about some mysterious shootout b/w the mqm militia and the talibans. Sorry but I dont buy such news.
Thats not the news I am quoting. I strongly suspect that press release was followed by good old ethnic violence.
I am referring to policemen getting killed while raiding taleban holdouts.
[quote]
In case you didnt know, the PPP and the MQM are partners, they'll do whatever it takes to bring attention to this issue.
[/quote]
Once again, put some meat on those bones, without which this doesnt even count as an explanation. Lets treat this incident in isolation. Who do you think could have killed the two policemen in a public raid, in a heavily populated area. Just need to know how far your theory extends.
[quote]
Simply put, theres no talibainzation in Karachi or anything of that sort, its just being hyped by 'bhai' because he really has no agenda left, especially after ditching the previous govt and supporting this one. This is what corrupt politicians do. This is why Kalabagh surfaced 50,000 times whenever the people's attention needed to be diverted.
[/quote]
Im sorry, but you dont know what you're talking about. Karachi is a huge city, with the most afghans and pashtuns in the world after Peshawar. It is illogical to suppose that any problem occurring in the north (Peshawar is an island in taleban world) wouldnt occur in any other place. Secondly while MQM has tried to give it an ethnic touch, this isnt limited to sohrab goth and pashtuns. I've roamed around in the areas that are supposed to be strongholds of these people, and assure you that another Lal masjid is quite likely in Karachi... some of these things look like freakin forts. There is a reason why many of those hiding after the afghanistan war surfaced in karachi. It is a huge city, with a sizeable section of the population with sympathy for the devil. Is one party factoring all that into their usual racial mantra? Yes. Does that mean that talebanization doesnt exist, or that you wont see threats in large banners against truck drivers's necks who supply to those fighting the Taleban, you shouldnt expect strongholds of taleban in the city, and you shouldnt expect violence if the state ever acts against them?
I understand your compulsion to refute what Bhai says, but it doesnt have to be by denying reality, atleast with no basis.
[quote]
Simple, the Americans shying away on the aid. Remember those deals that the last govt pulled with the militants, followed by airstrikes?
[/QUOTE]
American aid is mostly military, with little incentive for MQM there. Nevertheless, I meant a chain of events describing the specific raid in which two policemen were killed. Who might have ordered such a raid which occurred before witnesses, and in the involvement of an intelligence agency, who might have killed those policemen, what their families were told, and so on.