who conducted this study?? or did u just pull that out of your behind.. just like you claim that the stoning for adultery is from the Qur’an. 
It seems that stoning for adultery is less about morality than about preserving cultural and religious traditions, patriarchy and the dominance of men. I mean which action is "less moral": having consentual sex between two adults or pelting someone with rocks until they die? Have any one of you seen or participated in this barbaric practice? Do the rock throwers gain some satisfaction from this? Are their sins any less than those on whom they are inflicting such cruel pain?
Seminole,
I was not going to get into this discussion, after going through the arguments before a few times. But some of the comments just pushed it too far & I wanted to make my opinion heard.
Is adultery moral or immoral and what should be the punishment for offenders had long been the issue of the law, which a few centuries back was only justified in the name of religion. But even today countries all over the world have different laws governing this issue. If you don’t know, many of the states of the USA gives the “wronged” spouse the provision to file criminal changes in case of adultery. In the state of Mississippi, the offence is punished by 6 months in jail & a hefty cash fine! The church dealt with far more severely in the middle ages than even imaginable today and sure enough they didn’t leave it to God to punish such people. You can read more about it in this article (I urge other’s to read it too, as it might tell you where some of the notion regarding adultary if commited by old or young, by married or unmarried etc. became part of Fiqh)
Islam’s jurisprudence on this issue differs from Fiqh to Fiqh (You might wanna check out what Fiqh means), in other words different scholars have explained the ruling according to their own understandings.
In my opinion, the Islamic teaching on adultery do not go against the earlier Judo-Christian teachings but claims to perfect the ruling. Let me explain how the law laid down in the Qu’ran establishes the essence of “He who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone …”
The Quranic teaching of the four witnesses, who according to jurisprudences should not only be witness to the actual sexual act but also should be righteous enough to be considered credible, has great meanings. The very issue of “credibility” of the witnesses shows the essence of the teaching of the New Testament. When a mob (not much different from the religious bigoted mobs of today) came to Jesus (as) to punish the adulterous women, he didn’t object to the law of stoning. He beautifully pointed out to them that if they look at themselves in the mirror, they are all guilty of sins bigger than what they want to punish the woman for. If you read that part of Mathew, it becomes all so clear that he doubted the intentions of those people. They didn’t want to carry on the law because it was the commandment of God but because of their inner cruelty. The Islamic teaching of credible, righteous witnesses has the same essence. It’s a law for the society which itself is God fearing, nor for the society where you can pay a few Rupees and get the witnesses of your liking.
The obligation of the witnesses to actually see the act, not just assume it, also holds significance. It seems strange how can a bunch of “righteous individual” be in such a position? Do they go on peeping in people’s houses to see who is doing what & then go on & gather other’s to make the case? Absolutely not! The other teachings of Islam give so much emphasis on upholding & respecting privacy, as well as covering your brother’s sins that it seems almost impossible for such a case to occur. The fact of the matter is that the teaching is prescribed for extreme cases, where the individuals openly and shamelessly are involved in such acts publicly. We saw that in the case of that Radio show which aired a couple having sex in the Church in New York… I suppose you could get far more than four righteous witnesses to convict them. 
So, the essence of the Islamic teaching regarding adultery are to safe guard the society as a whole from those who shamelessly profess such acts & openly commit them. For those who can’t resist such temptations behind close doors, only Allah is regarded as the judge.
The perfection in the teaching comes from the fact that unlike the old testement, Qu’ran only prescribe a 100 lashes if proven guilty, for the above mentioned aduterers (stoning is not even remotly mentioned). It is also interesting to note that the same is priscribed for those who make such accusations & can’t prove it.
Salam-
just a quick thing-i recall a story abt the a woman who had sex outside of marriage (i’m not sure if it was extra or pre) and got pregnant. She felt bad abt it and went to the prophet. He kept sending her away till her son was grown to give her her punishment. I think that her punishment was being stoned to death.
I don’t remember the whole story, but does anyone know what i’m talking abt?
on a side note-one of the things that bothers me most in this world is cheating-extramarital affairs :yukh:
whoa whoa whoa…AFTER I HAVE STATED THAT I TOOK THE TRANSLATION FROM QURAN’S SURAT AL-NOOR, how can you still say that i pulled this out of my behind?!? some people REALLY need to read and understand Quran before they conclude things about other people. I would strongly advise you to read surah Noor 
and about cheating, no i haven’t conducted any study but i used my common sense and what i see here all the times…you don’t see A LOT OF people having b/f or g/f and having sex…even if they do have sex or have b/f or g/f, not as much as here in USA.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
It seems that stoning for adultery is less about morality than about preserving cultural and religious traditions, patriarchy and the dominance of men. I mean which action is "less moral": having consentual sex between two adults or pelting someone with rocks until they die? Have any one of you seen or participated in this barbaric practice? Do the rock throwers gain some satisfaction from this? Are their sins any less than those on whom they are inflicting such cruel pain?
[/QUOTE]
.....dominance of men?.....the reason why i started this thread was because the girl in my class said the same thing...but the correction is: men DO GET PUNISHED AS WELL. and about satisfaction, it's not like when people find that a couple had sex, they kick them out of their homes and bring them on street and follow them around throwing stones on them til they die, NO!!! they are taken to court, then according to islamic law, whichever punishment is for them (according to their marital status) is given to them and it is done infront of people, i am not sure if it's done in jail or in a square, but people HAVE TO WITTNESS it. not everyone can join for amusement!
speaking about other religions, ahmad jee is right.......NO religion encourages adultary.....i am not sure about their punishments but they don't let it go either.
ahmadjee,
I, too, have not wanted to discuss this issue here because it is not my intent to ridicule anyone's faith. But to see how gleefully some people speak about throwing stones at each other is a little much to bear.
I would be just as apt to argue with a Christian fundamentalist regarding a cruel and inhumane punishment that they sought fit for a church or court to impose upon an individual for a discrete, intimate, consentual act. As self-righteous and pompous Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are, they at least don't condone throwing stones at someone as punishment.
I'm not necessarily arguing against a punishment for someone who enters into a spiritual and contractual agreement such as marriage and breaks that bond with infidelity, but against the throwing of stones at such people.
I do not see how one could read that the punishment is only for those who flaunt it publicly -- there are several circumstances that can arise where 4 witnesses can catch them in the act (not likely, but possible). Seems like scripture would be more specific if that were the case. And if your scripture is open to that much interpretation, doesn't that put Islam alongside Christianity in its non-literal, modern-day interpretated, common sense approach? That is not the view of Islam by most of the Muslims I speak with. Matter of fact, that is their main criticism of Christianity.
You say that only in a law-abiding, truly Islamic society can such laws as stoning be implemented. Where does such a society exist? Nigeria? Taliban? Pakistan? Iran? They all have a lot of work to do before they can push people off cliffs, topple walls, or stone them to death. I wonder if whoever is deciding the stoning cases in areas where the law is in effect today, would be standing with a rock in his hand after Jesus asked him "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone".
Stoning to death is EVIL and should be condemned.. Islam forbids stoning to death period.. those that think otherwise well good luck to you, you are entitled to your own opinion.
i still don’t understand what’s unclear to you people! when Quran and Allah tell you the punishment, why do you think it is evil, sin, or rediculous??? are you even muslims who are calling Allah’s punishment EVIL? go to this website and READ THE SECOND VERSE!
http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/noble/nobae024.htm
if it doesn’t automatically takes you there, click on surah “Al-Nur” and then read the first few verses, especially the second one. Hopefully that’ll answer your questions…this punishment is not one’s personal opinion, this is what muslims have been told. Hope this helps.
My Dear gullible pakbeast, here is what you wrote:
"some people REALLY need to read and understand Quran..."
I AGREE!
Now take a copy of the Qur'an and read the subject verses minus the interpretor's own words in brackets.
Read what Allah sent down.. not what some human being inserted without fear of retribution by the Almighty for changing His word.
there is a genetic and survival aspect to infidility.
religen introduces or forces moral component to nature’s own course of
action?Dr Emlen said there are only two monkeys, the marmoset and the tamarin, are truly monogamous.
All other primates, includes humans, often mate outside their partnerships
Infidelity ‘is natural’
islam is against stoning to death? well it is against stoning to death innocent. next you will be telling me islam is against cutting of the hand and next islam is against punishment of homosexuals. look allahs words are very clear take islam as a whole or then leave it. you cannot pick and choose to suit your own life. if you dont like allahs law then what are you doing in islam. you want to follow your life according to human laws and their desires. islam-submission to the will of allah. which means our lives are bound by limits, as compared to the kafirs. we cannot sleep when we want, we cannot eat what we want, we cannot dress how we want, we cannot listen to what we want etc etc etc.
now a muslim to say islam is against stoning to death is ridiculous, and degrades our religion. as the prophet (saw) ordered it to happen, so did the sahabah. now if islam was against it wouldnt the prophet stop it?
it is human nature to have sexual relations and see islam solves this by allowing something called marriage!! it is the proper way to fulfil your desires. if you want to be an animal and go around doing what you want. if you have no shame do what you want, hadith. islam provides alternatives to everything and really it is a test of our iman.
tell me whose fault is it, if somebody gets stoned to death? if i told you today do not go to buy coca cola or else you will be killed. would you be foolish and go buy coca cola. (its a stupid example but anyway you get what i mean). there is a punishment there, because adultery is severe the punishment is severe so as to balance it out, and to prevent people from doing it. i think its suicide to commit adultery and knowing the punishment.
No one says there shouldn't be any punishment, but rather a punishment that makes sense AND is the one sanctioned by Allah cuz Allah's laws are indeed just and closer to our nature.. they don't need an army of scholars and zealots killing dissenters for an enforcement of the same.
Why is it that the Qur'anic law says one thing and a whole group of people say totally opposite things. Isn't their law more a reflection of their own desires and a more human law.. afterall it's the one based on 'scholarly consensus' rather than divinie instruction.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by talib_khan: *
**you cannot pick and choose to suit your own life. if you dont like allahs law then what are you doing in islam. ....*
[/QUOTE]
Mr. talib , WHO are you to judge who is Muslim and WHO is not!! Only ALLAH (SWT) can make such a Judgement. IGNORANCE seems to be a virtue of people such as yourself.. If you want to live by your OWN interpretations of Islam than that is your privilege it DOES not change mine or MILLIONS of other Muslims views. Islam is a beautiful, caring, respectful and peaceful way of life. Stoning to death is something, which is medieval and is not permissible in Islam... period!
I will be meeting a scholer soon so i will ask him whats the proper punishment for adultry acording to Ahle Tasheh
Are non-muslims in a muslim country subject to such laws?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
Are non-muslims in a muslim country subject to such laws?
[/QUOTE]
islamic laws shouldnt be applied to the non muslims..thats what i think