Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
what is the significance of 'stoning the symbolic satan' during Haj?
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
Why don't you ask Allah to reveal some ayahs on you to make it optional. Until then, Ra'mi will remain a mendotory part of hajj. Weak, old and women and those who are physically unable to perform it will continue to find people who can do it on their behlaf.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
First and foremost, putting everything aside, those bitchin’ should realise how fortunate these lot of martyrs’ were. Subhan teri kudrat! Stoning Iblees, in Mina, is the sunnat of hadrat Ibrahim. :as:] The believers have been taught by Allah subhana wa tala & hadrat Mohammad-e-mustapha, :saw:] to perform the pilgrimage & all the rites of the Hajj!!! Stoning of the 3 shaitaans is part of the rites of Hajj.
Ideally common sense should prevail & the pilgrims should perform this ritual at different times, in order to prevent over crowding. That’s one of many suggestions already put forward by the government of ksa.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
The Quran says God wants to make things easy for you. I seriously cannot believe that God would want you to stand in an area filled with firing missiles of joothay and rocks, with the risk of getting hit upside the head and either dying or getting seriously injured.
God asks you in the Quran not to put your body in physical harm's way. That's the Quran and that's God's words. Did God say in the Quran, go hit the little stone that stands for where the "devil" stood?
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
Stonning of Al Jumrah (the Shaitan) is an obligatory part of Hajj and leaving it voids the Hajj, just like not doing one or both sajdah in a rakat can void your whole Salah and requires you to offer it again.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
Where is it stated that its farz, ameer hamzah?
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
According to the Sunnah of Prophet:saw:, it is mandatory because that is how it was taught by him.
No where in Quran, you can find the procedure to perform hajj, just like you do not find how to pray, and just like Quran does not tell you about 7 tawafs of Kaba or 7 arkan of Saee.
Hajj and Salah are purely Sunnah based.
If you have, otherwise some statements of Quran, where the whole procedure of either or of the both type of ibadaat is written, kindly show us.
Sincerely,
Ameer Hamzah
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
As far as I am concerned, whether or not it is farz, it has become the responsibility of the organizational body to ensure the safety of the pilgrims.
Let's leave Allah, Islam and sanctity out of this. This is simply a matter of improving logistics and bettering the conditions to permit everyone access to the area in a safe manner.
The improvements that have been made to the site since the late 70's and early 80's are large in number. Why can't similar upgrades be done for this area?
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
When Allah :swt: calls you for Hajj PCG, you can skip it…
As for it being Farz is concerned, it is the recorded Sunnah of the Holy Prophet :saw:…
Just like Salat…You can argue ‘where is it stated that you must prostrate or bow down or read Surah Fatiha’ e.t.c.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
Exactly, sunnah is not farz. The hajj procedures are sunnah each. What is farz, is to visit makkah and the kabbah. I am not sure if the Quran specifically states that it must be done once in your life at least within a specific range of Islamic calendar dates, or if that too was based on sunnah, but anything the prophet did which was not explictly stated in the Quran falls under sunnah, not farz.
Especially if you have a clause in the Quran stating that one should not intentionally put their body in harm's way. If you die in Hajj because of a natural death, that is one thing. If you put yourself in the line of a flying shoe, and get your eye taken out, its a totally different thing.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
Stoning IS FARD. Signifies the three places where Prophet Abraham avoided the sheytaan.
As for those who died, Allah grant them Jannah inshAllah.
How can you ridicule, dying in the path of Allah swt. What, they went to hell for getting stampede on?
THe saudi govt does their job. Its the people who do not follow sunnah. SImple.
They get too jazbaati and pagal.
And yes, angels do collect ur rocks. Even though the saudi govt does clean them, not all are cleaned, some are swept up by angels.
Refer to your Hadiths on Hajj.
Allah have mercy on All.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
Inna Lillahay wa inna ila hey Rajeoon
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
I am quite surprized and shocked to say the least.
So, since there is not procedure of Salah mentioned in Quran, and since the procedure is performed by Prophet, fard salah is actually Sunnah using the same logic. And therefore, once can perform salah as however one wants regardless how it is prescribed by Prophet:saw:
Quite interesting and quite confusing.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
Oh my gosh, you actually think angels collect your rocks.
Ay ya yai.
I'm not ridiculing the people that died, buddy. Read my posts again. I'm ridiculing the saudi government, that with all the money they have, they can't keep things safe for muslims who come from all over the world to do pilgrimmage. Apparently gambling away oil dollars is more important than organizing hajj procedures a bit more and creating more facilities and assistances for hajjis so that people don't get killed UNNECESSARILY.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
No, the Quran does ask you to do Salah. It just doesn't tell you entirely how. That's why muslims all around the world have slightly different ways of praying. Its all fine. Are you telling me that anyone who doesn't organize their rakats like you and doesn't read the same duahs you read and the same exact ayahs in the same order, with the same way of wrapping your legs when you sit, are all not getting credit for their salat?
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
Ay ya yai.
I'm not ridiculing the people that died, buddy. Read my posts again. I'm ridiculing the saudi government, that with all the money they have, they can't keep things safe for muslims who come from all over the world to do pilgrimmage. Apparently gambling away oil dollars is more important than organizing hajj procedures a bit more and creating more facilities and assistances for hajjis so that people don't get killed UNNECESSARILY.
PCG, go there and find out urself. I was in your position prior to going there myself.
ITS DISPICABLE (SP?) how negative we are towards their efforts.
Jamarat is HUGE! it can Easilly encompasss everyone.
When i was by the Kabah, peoplee went crazy and started banging their heads ont he kabah. Honestly, no control. 2-3 guards had to come to remove those people.
Its the People, not the organization of the govt. They are trying their best.
Also, have you forgotten, the 200,000 people arrangements in saudi, free drinks being handed out, with free food. Cleaning services, etc etc.
Saudi Govt arent' responsible, people need to get a grip.
Its the saudis that throw chappals and watches and suitcases towards the sheytaan? NO , its the people out of their jazba.
Also, yes the angels do collect the rocks. Look it up.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
thinking is something else, but believing in the words of Prophet:saw: is called FAITH.
Some people ‘think’ about their religion as their own common sense dictates them, and some just ‘Believe’ on their religion.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
Exactly, didn't I just say that? Lemme cut/paste, cuz you obviously can't see it.
*The hajj procedures are sunnah each. What is farz, is to visit makkah and the kabbah. *
Let me clarify. Hajj itself is mandatory. But what arkaan are farz and what is not and how you're supposed to do each step and stage is all sunnah. The details aren't given in the Quran so that's all Sunnah. You need to use your own mind when you follow sunnah. I'd rather follow the Quran which asks me to protect my body andnot put it in harm's way, rather than following the hadith that record that x, y, and z is how the Prophet did Hajj. The Prophet also did Hajj at a time where there were not millions of people throwing rocks with the Prophet's head coming in the way.
Re: Stoning the pillars/walls at Hajj.
PCG have you even bothered to read the Sunnah way to follow at jamarat?
You can have Billion people, if they adhered to the sunnah, you would have no casualty.