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Originally posted by reza khan: Ahmadi Sharia means the way. When talk of Sharia comes up people think of only onething death. None else. Sharia is much deeper subject and not just stoning to death.
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If only the "way of life" was needed to revive the society, Quran would have been revealed to a King or a Qazi, whom from the authority of his power would have made people say prayers, give alms, fast and all that good stuff. But instead, Allah chose a humble, meek, innocent, mild, calm, gentle person for his message, who with the power of his love & compassion towards his fellow beings reformed the nation and is reforming nations of the world.
We need to stop institutionalizing our religion... If we insist on bringing religion into the government, we need to reinterpret our beliefs into something more humane and less medievil. There are other ways to put people death that are far less cruel then stoning.. We can administer lethal injection or carbon monoxide poisoning... Both can be painless way to die, away from the eyes of the public. People can atleast die with some dignity. Stoning is a cruel and evil practice that has no place in modern society.
So are u saying u want to reform Islam like christianity. The reason why stoning is done in public is to let people have fear from not doing the evil practice of illegal sex for which God cursed and distroyed peoples.
For this "modern" society i absolutely support this punishment, after all the person who commits it or is going to commit it knows whats gonna happen to him/her after his/hers evil practice.
Allah's laws are for reason. Its like saying that the laws which form an integral part of Islam were for medieval arabs and not for today as some people say that sharia is a medieval law used for pagan arabs.
Ahmadjee, surely I agree that Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) humble nature was behind it, but didn
that nature was part of Shariat. The daily laws of muslim life like, relatives inheritance, marriage laws are all part of the way of Prophet and Sharia or isnt it. And werent there still hypocrats among them at the time of prophet(PBUH)who infront of muslims were something else and behind them other and these were the people who didnt have the fear of Allah still he made the laws of Allah applicabe or didnt he??
[This message has been edited by reza khan (edited April 20, 2002).]
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Originally posted by reza khan:
** So u r saying that the laws of Allah are draconian and Medieval. So what do u wanna do about that. Reform Islam.**
Islam is in the HEARTS of individuals, it does not need CORRUPT, religiously insane, war mongering fanatics to impose a EXTREMIST interpretation of this Great Religion onto others. Pakistan will always have a constitution protecting the rights of its people. It will NEVER go down the path of destruction as seen in Afghanistan where 1000's of women are widowed, 1000's of women beg on the streets, 1000's of women were denied even their Basic human rights. And before you say this is propoganda, I suggest you visit HRW, Amnesty or any other Human Rights Organisations to see what so called religious laws imposed by Fanatics done to the people of Afghanistan.
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[This message has been edited by Dil he Pakistani (edited April 20, 2002).]
Read what i said before, there are corrupt people among us that doesnt mean every Mullah is corrupt. I dont say that HRCR report is propaganda either. Surely evil things happened there but that doesnot mean that if most muslims are corrupt then the laws of Allah will never be put in Islamic lands just becoz people think they are medieval or not acceptable for present moderb society.
If someone misuses the laws of Allah then ha/she should be dealt with the laws of Allah whether a Mullah misuses it or a normal person.
reza, We are now living in a MODERN world, Islam allows men and women the right to be educated, the right to study sciences, to increase knowledge and understanding about everything about life, it gives special status to women who are seen as nation Builders. What did we see with the radical interpretation of Islam in Afghanistan where the Taliban virtually destroyed the Education system and made women PRISONERS in their own homes. Again I repeat Islam is in the Hearts of individuals and MUST never be forced or imposed onto someone. Islam is a Compassionate Religion period. I most sincerely hope that Pakistans constitution is safeguarded from extremist ideologies insha'Allah.
I am not talkin about Taliban, people always take talibans example in Sharia. there are countries like Saudi arabia and iran which foloow Shariat, how many women die in Saudi Arabia or how many, or when reprters claim that women are dying in Iran or Saudi Arabia. Islam is for every nation till day of judjement not for arabs as people say that it was for arabs of that time to make them civilized. If some one does not believe in Islams way then be it, Thise who do will try to follow it correctly for the way it should be.
reza, Look at HRW and Amnesty reports about Human Rights violations in the countries youve mentioned ie Iran, Saudia Arabia, all of them again are under laws which are very much extremist in their interpretation of Islam, but with one difference, in that they are EVEN more corrupt than the Taliban were.
024.002 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Where the stoning came from beats me!
Obviously, someone somewhere believes that flogging and stoning are the same thing!
Imagine what they must think of Man and Woman!! The Same!!
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Ahmadjee, surely I agree that Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) humble nature was behind it, but didn
that nature was part of Shariat. The daily laws of muslim life like, relatives inheritance, marriage laws are all part of the way of Prophet and Sharia or isnt it. And werent there still hypocrats among them at the time of prophet(PBUH)who infront of muslims were something else and behind them other and these were the people who didnt have the fear of Allah still he made the laws of Allah applicabe or didnt he??
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Khan Sahib,
What I am trying to argue is that the society, which AnHazoor (saw) reformed went through all the stages of perfection, and shariyat changed according to the time, nature and the maturity level of the society as a whole.
The society of Pakistan is also at a level; which is certainly no way near the level that AnHazoor (saw) transformed society. But are we just like the Jhuala? Probably not ... but not too far off either.
So, if you want Islamic Laws you have to first figure out what AnHazoor (saw) did when he was in a society like Pakistan has today? Did he by the power of his authority dictate the law? No, instead he brought them out of the ignorance with diligent self-sacrificial preaching. And that's what Pakistan (& the rest of the world) needs, a moral uplift towards maturity, not a represent law in the name of God. Shariyat will serve nothing if the people will not understand the true meanings behind it!
There is no one stopping people to obey by the laws of inheritance, or marriages! For instance; if you are living in UK & you get your share according to the English law, you should redistribute it according to your understanding of the Islamic law! And that's what's needed! Where people accept the law with their hearts believing in it, not when it’s imposed by the state.
Islam is not a religion that suppresses its constituents into believing things; instead unlike other religions it declares there is no compulsion in religion!
[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
**So are u saying u want to reform Islam like christianity. The reason why stoning is done in public is to let people have fear from not doing the evil practice of illegal sex for which God cursed and distroyed peoples.
For this "modern" society i absolutely support this punishment, after all the person who commits it or is going to commit it knows whats gonna happen to him/her after his/hers evil practice.
Allah's laws are for reason. Its like saying that the laws which form an integral part of Islam were for medieval arabs and not for today as some people say that sharia is a medieval law used for pagan arabs.
Ahmadjee, surely I agree that Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) humble nature was behind it, but didn
that nature was part of Shariat. The daily laws of muslim life like, relatives inheritance, marriage laws are all part of the way of Prophet and Sharia or isnt it. And werent there still hypocrats among them at the time of prophet(PBUH)who infront of muslims were something else and behind them other and these were the people who didnt have the fear of Allah still he made the laws of Allah applicabe or didnt he??
[This message has been edited by reza khan (edited April 20, 2002).]**
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See your confused because you think reform means changing Islam... This is incorrect. We are simply reinterpretting the Koran and Islam. We are not changing anything. The Koran is not straight foward, it is poetic, it uses lot of symbolism. Last I checked, God left the Koran to interpretted. Its a good thing, it helps us grow, it should be encouraged.
[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
**So are u saying u want to reform Islam like christianity. The reason why stoning is done in public is to let people have fear from not doing the evil practice of illegal sex for which God cursed and distroyed peoples.
For this "modern" society i absolutely support this punishment, after all the person who commits it or is going to commit it knows whats gonna happen to him/her after his/hers evil practice.
Allah's laws are for reason. Its like saying that the laws which form an integral part of Islam were for medieval arabs and not for today as some people say that sharia is a medieval law used for pagan arabs.
Ahmadjee, surely I agree that Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) humble nature was behind it, but didn
that nature was part of Shariat. The daily laws of muslim life like, relatives inheritance, marriage laws are all part of the way of Prophet and Sharia or isnt it. And werent there still hypocrats among them at the time of prophet(PBUH)who infront of muslims were something else and behind them other and these were the people who didnt have the fear of Allah still he made the laws of Allah applicabe or didnt he??
[This message has been edited by reza khan (edited April 20, 2002).]**
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See your confused because you think reform means changing Islam... This is incorrect. We are simply reinterpretting the Koran and Islam. We are not changing anything. The Koran is not straight foward, it is poetic, it uses lot of symbolism. Last I checked, God left the Koran to interpretted. Its a good thing, it helps us grow, it should be encouraged. And yes, stoning in public is BARBARIC. It does nothing to make people more law abiding. Thats a myth that muslims make up to justify public executions.