From MoonSighting.com
… the first day of Ramadan will be on Saturday, October 16, 2004 for most of the world except Northern Europe and Northern Asia. England is in a situation that this moon may or may not be seen on October 15.
FINALLY!!! Some sense on when to start Ramadan!!!
Buried at the bottom of an article on the MMA’s attempted curbs on media they feel spreads obscenity…
In another resolution, which was passed unanimously, the provincial assembly called for an end to the practice of deciding the start of the Islamic holy month using local sightings of the moon.
They proposed instead to follow the Saudi Arabian ruling on when the new moon had appeared.
Re: FINALLY!!!! Some sense on when to start Ramadan!!!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
....They proposed instead to follow the Saudi Arabian ruling on when the new moon had appeared.
[/QUOTE]
Good now these M*Toos will do the following on Saudi schedule as well.
Halwa breakfast when Saudi start it in Gadda (It should be Jeddah but PiTAAs insist on Arabizing the wonderful language of English)
Murgh Cholay lunch in sync with the Mullahs of Gadda
Zuhar time in rytham with the Saudi masters
Dal-Khori again absolutely when Saudi say Bismillah.
Off course this will allow the release of hot-air at the same time from all the Mullahs across the globe. Due to resonance, Kuffar will think "Topain chul rahi hain" (guns are blasting). They will immediately bow down and repent. Mullahs will be victorious and everyone will live in peace forever except for a few. Those unfortunate not to taste the all prevalent peace will be Pakistani-Shias, Pakistani-Ahmadis, and Pakistani Christians.
Down with Saudi M*Toos and their PiTAAs.
Re: Re: FINALLY!!! Some sense on when to start Ramadan!!!
That’s very good news…Limiting the evil that spews forth in the name of entertainment these days results in no less than intellectual death and braindead zombies called mod-Muslims, who are Muslims by name and Kuffar by actions and Aishwaria Rai by looks…Even guys…
They walk a line of confusion and one can’t tell by their actions, appearance or attitude whether they are Muslims or not…
This action would limit at least for a month the desire to indulge in Haram-khori, or in other words “Nahi-An-ill-Munkar”…Pakistan is an Islamic state and should represent it for all to see…
As for following the Arabic schedule, nothing cold please my heart more than this…As long as I can remember, disputes over whether the moon has been sighted or not arose between every different Muslim nation…At least this way we can be united in one celebration around the world at the same time…Good news indeed…:k:
Well, it may be good news for some, but this topic is extremely debatable.
Theoretically, if all muslims around the world start using Saudi Arabia as the focal point for when to start a lunar month, especially Ramzaan, then due to time difference, may world locations will invariably miss out the first roza. That is why there is the concept of ‘Ikhtilaful Matali’ (separate horizons). Each local location should sight the moon on their own.
Interestingly, Saudi Arabia does not actually sight the moon to start their lunar month. To many muslims the actual sighting is the key to Islamic fiqh, otherwise science can tell you where the moon is, but whether it is actually sighted by a reliable muslim has always been the requirement, throughout muslim history.
Here is what Saudi Arabia does.
Saudi Arabia doesn’t rely on a visual sighting of the crescent moon to fix the start of a new month. Instead they base their calendar on a calculated astronomical moon.
Since 1999 (1420 AH) the rule has been as follows: On the 29th day of an Islamic month, the times when the sun and the moon set are compared. If the sun sets before the moon, the next day will be the first of a new month; but if the moon sets before the sun, the next day will be the last (30th) of the current month.
The times for the setting of the sun and the moon are calculated for the coordinates of Mecca.
Source](The Islamic Calendar | Calendars)
However, personally, I think both ways are permissible, as long as muslims in a locality are united in their calendar.
From the Fiqh standpoint, one may begin the fast in Ramadhan, for example, based on a “local” sighting. This also known as Ikhtilaful Matali’ (separate horizons) or the recognition that different part of the world may have different (unrelated) sightings of the moon as in the case when the two places do not share days or nights. Or based on a “global” sighting anywhere in the world. This is the case known as Ittihadul Matali’ (single horizon) where one sighting of the new moon is considered to be valid for beginning the month for all parts of the world. Although different, both of these positions are valid Fiqh positions.
Source](alinaam.org.za)
Faisal,
In a Hadith, the Holy Prophet :saw: stated that whenever you are in doubt about something, follow your closest Imam…
In Illinois, our Imam decided to set Eid on a certain day which coincided with the date in Saudi Arabia…The whole community was informed…I and many others, having read the above mentioned Hadith, decided to follow our Imam…
Almost half the people in the community decided to follow ISNA which followed a day behind…What happened…Half prayed Eid on one day and the other half on the other…Divided again…
If both ways of the Fiqh are correct and accepted, then why not adopt that which has a far greater impact on everyone, i.e. celebrating our celebrations in unity?
Still, it’s a very positive step…
And thats the problem. There are too many imams. As I said before, I think both opinions are fine. Now, all we need is that muslim communities in different locations to sit down and decide to follow one opinion, and do it consistently.
From a purely time difference, standpoint, I do believe local sightings are better when we talk about muslims on a global level. For example, by the time, Saudi Arabia is witnessing the Ramzaan moon, taraweeh time, and in many cases, the sehri time would have passed in many areas West of Philipines, and they will miss out the first roza. And the same problem for Eid. Then again, for many locations in the middle east and Europe this may not be an issue.
Having said that, whatever a community decides on a local level is fine. If only we can have this unity atleast on the local level.
I don't think the Saudis know that MMA follows their calendar. May be they will start charging them ro something. So, MMA does not believe Pakistan's Roo-ete-halaal committee's moon sighting but would rather follow someone in a different part of the world. OK. I think MMA needs to promote UNITY among the LOCAL imaams and leaders by following it's own organizations rather looking up to Saudis who don't care if you exist or not.
Soon inshallah Ramzan moon will appear on sky' from my child hood I love the month of Ramzan.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
...In a Hadith, the Holy Prophet saw stated that whenever you are in doubt about something, follow your closest Imam...
In Illinois, our Imam decided .
[/QUOTE]
I guess it is true for most of the cases. However for moon-sighting you can't follow a Nabeena (blind) imam. Use your own eyes.
Most of the Imams these days are Nabeenas indeed.
Since you have eyes why don’t you tell me when Ramadan is…I am Nabeena you see…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
.......I am Nabeena ....
[/QUOTE]
Oh so blind (Imam) is leading blinds (followers) in Illinois? No wonder one-eyed Mullah Omer is king in that mosque.
Not only that but the Dajjal was with him…
… for sure.
Hmm. What the heck is going on in that mosque. Nabeena (blind) Imam, one-eyed Mullah Omer and now OBbaL the dajjal are all there.
Not only that but we discussed - horror of horrors - Jihad and how to wage it and in what to do in it and to whom to wage it against…Tauba tauba Aunty…If you were there you would have peed in your Gharara…All the MAToos and PIToos in one place discussing the world and how to live and survive in it…Discussing Jihad and Ummah and Shariah and how best to defeat and kill the enemy Kuffar…
Re: Re: Re: FINALLY!!! Some sense on when to start Ramadan!!!
how absolutely wrong…
ramadhan and other months r to be marked by sighting the moon and not on when saudis declare it…
like other people, saudis have too made mistakes in the past and on one occasion atleast that i remember they did openly declare that they have made a mistake and missed a day of ramadhan…
they r humans and bound to make mistakes, and so r others…
but the sunnah is to start ramdhan with the sighting of the moon and he who wishes to go against it is starting a bid’aah…
Re: Re: Re: Re: FINALLY!!!! Some sense on when to start Ramadan!!!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
how absolutely wrong....
ramadhan and other months r to be marked by sighting the moon and not on when saudis declare it....
like other people, saudis have too made mistakes in the past and on one occasion atleast that i remember they did openly declare that they have made a mistake and missed a day of ramadhan....
they r humans and bound to make mistakes, and so r others....
but the sunnah is to start ramdhan with the sighting of the moon and he who wishes to go against it is starting a bid'aah....
[/QUOTE]
Mughal...Faisal has posted two very authentic and accepted methods of sighting of the moon from the Fiqh POV...Please refer to them...
And how can I be wrong if I have made no statement...I just said that I was happy at this decision being taken and Faisal's enlightening post will verify that I can be happy about it, but not wrong...
but the salafs used to follow the local moon sightings,
so seperate moon sightings for seperate areas are allowed, wallah o alam
What is the ruling on a person who does not fast according to the first sighting of the new moon of Ramadaan, but waits until he sees it for himself? Is their interpretation of hadeeth, “Fast when you see it [the new moon] and stop fasting when you see it” correct??
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
What is obligatory is to fast when the sighting of the moon is confirmed, even if it is seen by only one trustworthy Muslim, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) issued orders to fast when a Bedouin testified that he had seen the new moon. Interpreting the hadeeth “Fast when you see it and stop fasting when you see it” as meaning that no individual should fast until he sees the new moon for himself is incorrect, because the hadeeth is telling everyone to fast when the sighting is confirmed, even if only one trustworthy Muslim sees the new moon. (Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 10/94).
Further evidence that the sighting of the new moon by one trustworthy, reliable Muslim is sufficient for fasting to be obligatory on all the people is the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said: “The people went out to sight the new moon and I told the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that I had seen it, so he fasted and told the people to fast.” (Reported by Abu Dawood in his Sunan, Kitaab al-Sawm, Baab fi Shahaadat al-Waahid ‘ala ru’yat hilaali Ramadaan).
Some of those who follow bid’ah delay fasting until after all the other Muslims have started to fast, because of their misguided belief that fasting is not obligatory on a person until he sees the new moon for himself. The ahaadeeth refute this, and we would ask them moreover: what are those who are blind or who have poor eyesight supposed to do? It is as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “…Verily, it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts which are in the breasts that grow blind.” [al-Hajj 22:46].
And Allaah is the One Who guides to the Straight Path.
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=1584&dgn=4
Since the prophet said “Begin fasting after sighting the moon”, how can muslims be fasting one on Tuesday in one part of the world and wednesday in another part. We should all begin our fast at the same time regardless of where we live.
We are students in the U.S. and Canada, and we face the same problem every year at the beginning of Ramadaan, because the Muslims are split into three groups:A group that fasts when the new moon is sighted in the city in which they live.
A group that fasts when fasting starts in Saudi Arabia.
A group that fasts when they hear news from the Muslim students’ union in the U.S. and Canada which watches for the new moon in different parts of America, and as soon as the new moon is sighted in one city, they spread the news to different Islamic centres so that the Muslims in America can start fasting on the same day, despite the great distances between the different cities.
Which group should we follow? Whose sighting of the moon should we rely on? Please give us a fatwa, may Allaah reward you.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly: the fact that the moon rises at different times in different places is a well-established fact; no scholar disputes this. However, the scholars differ as to whether this matters or not.
Secondly: the question as to whether different times of moonrise is something that matters is a theoretical question in which ijtihaad is permissible. Those who have knowledge of science and religion differ on this matter, and this difference of opinion is permissible; the one who has the correct opinion will have two rewards, one for being right and one for making ijtihaad; the one whose opinion is wrong will still be rewarded for his ijtihaad.
The scholars’ differences on this matter may be described as one of two: some of them thought that the differences in the times of the moon’s rising was of significance, and others thought that it was not. Both groups cite evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and maybe even quote the same text, such as the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “They ask you (O Muhammad) about the new moons. Say: these are signs to mark fixed periods of time for mankind and for the pilgrimage…” [al-Baqarah 2:189] and the hadeeth, “Fast when you see it [the new moon] and stop fasting when you see it…” The difference is one of interpretation of the texts, as each group has its own methods of deriving evidence.
Thirdly: the committee has looked at the issue of confirming the new moon by calculations and what was said on this matter in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and they have studied the opinions of the scholars on this matter. They decided unanimously that astronomical calculations do not count when it comes to confirming the new moon for shar’i purposes, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Fast when you see it [the new moon] and stop fasting when you see it…” and also: “Do not fast until you see it [the new moon] and do not stop fasting until you see it…”, and because of the evidence that is derived from these ahaadeeth.
The Standing Committee on Scientific Research and Fatwas (al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah li’l-Buhooth al-‘Ilmiyyah wa’l-Iftaa’) thinks that the Muslim students’ union (or any other group representing the Muslim community) in countries where the government is not Islamic should take the place of an Islamic government in the matter of confirming the new moon for the people living in those non-Islamic countries.
On the basis of the above, this union has the choice of two options: either to consider the differences in times of moonrise to be of significance, or not to do so. Then they should inform all the Muslims in their country what their opinion is, and the Muslims have to follow what they have been told, so as to unite the Muslims in their fasting and to put an end to disputes and confusion. Everyone who lives in those countries should try to sight the moon in the place where they are living, and if one or more trustworthy persons sight the moon, they should fast according to that and tell the union to spread the news. This is at the beginning of Ramadaan; at the end of the month there has to be two witnesses to see the new moon of Shawwaal or the completion of thirty days of Ramadaan, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Fast when you see it [the new moon] and stop fasting when you see it, and if it is cloudy then complete the month with thirty days.” And Allaah knows best.
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=1248&dgn=3&
I don’t get this.
Why do they have to follow Saudis? Can’t they sight the moon themselves?
