Split: Religion vis a vis Shrine/Buildings/graves

[vroom]

Re: Split: Religion vis a vis Shrine/Buildings/graves

@psyah

Example 1)

A Muslim calls on Sayyiduna Muhammad (SAW) to forgive him his sins unaware of his wrong… This is shirk, why?
A) Calling on RasoolAllah (SAW) - this is the act - there is no inherent problem in doing this.
B) The intent of asking Sayyiduna Muhammad for forgiveness is wrong - shirk
C) The knowledge of doing this is not with the person - but his shirk still applies

@vroom

Salam Alaikum Psyah

I disagree with this example. Disagree with point B specifically

If a person Calls upon RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam to forgive his sins or to ask forgiveness it is not necessarily Shirk. Since there is this possibility that it was not Shirk the Islamic Fatwa must remain that it is not Shirk

Having said, like everything else, Only Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala can forgive sins. Merely Asking RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam to forgive sins is not shirk. For it to be Shirk it must be accompanied by other elements which infringe upon Tawheed. Like for example dependency. If a person was to ask RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam to forgive sins thinking that RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam was able to do this ‘independently’ then that would be shirk. However if a person was to ask RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam as a way to gain, be informed, of the Judgement of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala then that would be tawheed. This also includs situations where a person may feel Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala may not forgive them directly, but will Allow RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam to forgive them on His behalf (a bit like Intercession out of Hellfire).

The point is that the situation described in the example is insufficient to declare Shirk. For it to be Shirk it has to be done with a certain belief of equality in an Attribute, or for it to be not given by Allah (independently gained)

ps There is other points made by other posters on page 2 which i feel i must reply to. In Sha Allah in time

@psyah

Wa’alaikumuSalam brother vroom

Then you and I differ on this detail … Because Shirk comes from Shareek … Some things are only the Right of Allah (SWT) and they must be understood to be so. The Attribute of Ghafoor is with Allah (SWT) alone. It’s not about equality … The Sifaat of Allah (SWT) cannot be shared by anyone, not even in the slightest.

Furthermore you will find no evidence in our scriptures where people have asked RasoolAllah (SAW) to forgive sins. Rather I could point to the verses in the Qur’an to demonstrate this, you will see plenty of references to show people asking RasoolAllah (SAW) to seek forgiveness for them, but never to grant it … and I request that you check this out from your scholars too.

Its from the understanding I have gained from my scholars upon which I am able to object to this

The quoted scenario is insufficient to make the allegation of Shirk

A Muslim calls on Sayyiduna Muhammad (SAW) to forgive him his sins

I’ll quote you from a translation of Tafsir Ibn Kathir: “… I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins…”
Tawassul(Waseela)

This is in Middle of the explanation, likewise the scenario quoted must be interpreted in favour of the Muslim. Stopping the allegation of Shirk right there. That’s charitable

This is less Charitable, Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas:“…(and asked forgiveness of the Messenger)..”
Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs -

And with this statement (understanding) the scenario quoted is totally freed from the allegation of Shirk.