[Split]Obligation of proper dressing in Islam

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin: “Asma bint Abu Bakr, entered upon the Apostle of Allah while she was wearing thin clothes. The Apostle of Allah turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma’, when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands.” Sunnan Abu Dawud 32:4092. The collector, Abū Dawud, considered this hadith weak. Some later scholars have disagreed with Abū Dawud.

^(Copied from above)

Even though the topic is about Ghamdi but we have gone in to veil issue.

What if she was not wearing thin clothes?

The analogy could be that face and hands can be shown and other parts can be covered with thicker clothes -not see-through.
(Islam, christianity and judaism all are against nudity to my understanding.)

We had some discussion of covering face before and it was shown that covering face is not islamic per se.

(I do not know where this burqa or shuttlecock veil came from. Perhaps closest thing to burqa is what nuns wear)

Burqa- Which one is true islamic?

Nun-Edited

Jewish women/girls-edited

2

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

^^ Great post, & 100 % agreed !

3

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

The ayah regarding hijab for all muslim women is in Surah Nur and contains word "Khimar" which means "headcovering" and verse says "draw your headcovering over your bosoms. The criteria of covering for women (cover everything except face and hands) is also described in ahadith and even in Christianity and Judaism it's a requirement to cover your head.

Wearing Niqab is a good thing but its not required especially in western countries but if I'm in Yemen then I might wear it because its the culture.

4

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

That particular ayah that firenze is talking about that contains word "juyubuhina" is according to some scholars for the women of Prophet's family only. Allah hu Alim

5

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute


there is difference of opinion among scholars, but to be safe it is better to go with understanding of the earlier and classical scholars: niqab is wajib regardless of culture


well, both of ayaat (Surah Ahzab 59 and Surah Noor 31) address Muslim women in general, and they contain the words جَلَابِيبِهِنَّ and جُيُوبِهِنَّ respectively. Which ayah contain the word kihmar? Because I think you may have misunderstood it for interpretation of these two words.

btw firenze, was Qur'an revealed in English? If you want to post the meanings of that word, use the Arabic dictionary.

6

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

haha, that's all i can say on your naiveness :)

7

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

Niqaab is Wajib by Petro-Scholars like Munajid Saleh and Company not by classical scholars :rose:

And if you ask Cave Era Kabul University PhD Scholars …they will say … niqab is not enough as eyes can be seen and Qatil Nighahai with Trim Eyelash from Niqaab can create heat in one’s heart , so Shuttle Cock Burqa is Wajib and anyone not wearing MUST be lashed or beaten up. But if a poor girl be lashed for sin of ‘Adultery’ due to talking or even watching a Na-Mehram man or going with father-in-law , then she should lay on ground , Shuttle Cock SHOULD raised from ‘lashing point’ so that mentally and sexually frustrated lashing mullas can enjoy booty dance ! :flower1:

~AV Lassi and Paraatha break April 2013~
8

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

What kind a logic is that? So our mothers was allowed to go around wearing nothing except some clothes over their bosoms?

9

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

I disagree totally, here why:

Those who argue that niqab is fard often attempt to argue that the khimar commanded by Surah an-Nur ayah 31 is a niqab, i.e., it covers the face. But this it not the case.

What does the word khimar mean in classical Arabic? (just for you, coz you asked)

In common usage, the face and the head are distinguished. For instance, in wudu, we wash the "face" and the "head" separately.
In order to say that something covers the face it is necessary to state explicitly that it covers the face; saying that it covers the "head" is not enough.

Here are some explanations of the linguistic meaning of "khimar":
Imam Abu'l-Fida ibn Kathir: "Khumur is the plural of khimar which means something that covers, and is what is used to cover the head. This is what is known among the people as a khimar."

The dictionary of classical Arabic, Aqrab al-Mawarid: "[The word khimar refers to] all such pieces of cloth which are used to cover the head. It is a piece of cloth which is used by a woman to cover her head."

*Shaykh Muhammad al-Munajjid on Islam Q&A: *"Khimaar comes from the word khamr, the root meaning of which is to cover. For example, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Khammiru aaniyatakum (cover your vessels).” Everything that covers something else is called its khimaar. But in common usage khimaar has come to be used as a name for the garment with which a woman covers her head; in some cases this does not go against the linguistic meaning of khimaar. Some of the fuqahaa’ have defined it as that which covers the head, the temples and the neck. The difference between the hijaab and the khimaar is that the hijaab is something which covers all of a woman’s body, whilst the khimaar in general is something with which a woman covers her head."

Shaykh Muhammad Nasiruddin Albani: "The word khimaar linguistically means only a head covering. Whenever it is mentioned in general terms, this is what is intended."

Each of these authorities has stated that the khimar covers the head not the "face" :)

10

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

Just for writing this, because i couldn’t able too i forgive you for your language of starting thread !

11

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

^^ :flower1:

12

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

Then start wearing one otherwise don't even dare to tell me how I should dress up. Got it?

not some clothes but cloak.

13

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

Read ayah 24 of Surah Nur.

14

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

I have to agree with AKB on one thing, many a times we focus too much on the english translation of the tafseer, without any prior knowledge of the Arabic depth in which the Quran was revealed, as well as the context.

This does not do anyone justice.

15

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

FYI: The language of Quran is an ancient arabic language.. sort of like Shakespearean english or Lucknow style urdu to normal speakers.... its not a common street arabic thing, having said that: Care to tell me how many Muslims actually understand Arabic in natural dialect.

What do you want, every Muslim to get a masters degree in Arabic language ? The way it works is Ulemaah translate the Quran and then wrote tafseer, coz not everyone is Genius :)

16

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

^agree with u there....try asking a native arabic speaker abt the meaning of a certain verse and then see the confusion on his face.....had learning Arabic been a prerequisite to u/stnding Quran then it wudve been made wajib for each Muslim to learn the language....such a demand wouldve made perfect sense too but is not made.

Timepass - March 2013
17

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

Peace firenze

There are two issues here. Firstly it is thinking that by learning fusHa we can understand the Qur'an. I don't think this is true and same with you and I believe brother Crescent too believes this. However, then we have tafseer and then the translation of tafseer into English.

Things are contraversial as they stand with regards to English translations of the Qur'an then how much more will it be for English translations for tafseer?

What I believe Crescent is saying here is that we need to take things with a pinch of salt to give room to ourselves to modify our understandings as more light comes into the equation.

If we learn fusHa by the way study the Qur'an through traditional Arabic tafseer we are less likely to fall into such errors.

Additionally having said all of this we have to understand that there are a number of shari'ah citations where women have been instructed to remove their khimars showing their hair, because the infidel women would go about topless. There are physical and social problems with the niqab but purdah i.e. unnecessary intermingling is a different thing and is not hijab, but is really segregation. I believe in many cases brought forth to support niqab are really for segregation during gatherings. The consideration of taking niqab as wajib is interesting seeing that it has not the same level of appeal to women as does the khimar.

I don't know what hijab is given the name to a type of head scarf, because all those forms are hijab so long as the intention is hijab. Hijab is a physical-mental condition and should not be confused to be some sort of a dress code. Niqab on the other hand is one manifestation of a dress-code which is hijab compatible, the khimar is another and so on. To call an optional thing part of the religion by classifying it as wajib or otherwise needs rigorous evidence, otherwise this belief constitutes a bid'a. It is a different matter entirely to say niqab is one form of outer hijab to saying that niqab is wajib.

18

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

Peace Brother,

I understand your & Crescent points, but neither normal Muslim's have enough time, brain & will power to start going to the roots of Arabic language.

One question arose from this discussion, what will we call today's Islam then, because it is all translation & translation (ex. as i provide 17 different interpertation of one word), maybe if we go back to the roots, it will be totally something else. Its better to leave something, where it is right now.

What' ll u throw on the person above u
19

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute


I know your definition of classical scholars is different than ours because we both live in a different world. According to your greatest scholar, women don't even need to cover their heard. But for the sake of argument, go search in the heritage of the Salaf; you'll find an answer.


I don't think that they argue on the word khimaar; they use the word juyubihinna and they appeal to practice of shabiyaat and how they understood or acted after hearing to these ayaat. Whatever the case is, there's a difference of opinion among scholars on this issue, and niqab view has understanding of early and classical scholars in its favour + what I mentioned a sentence ago.


don't get worked over sister, my statment was general (a reminder) and I was only pointing out that scholars differed over this issue. If I were a girl, I would wear it before telling others. The Prophet (sal-allahu alayhi wa salam) has told us to stay away from grey area because it leads to haram. It was only a reminder: nothing more, nothing less.

20

Re: Greatest Scholar Javed Ghamdi : Salute

Good answer. Now how do we cover bosoms, plus the other ayah about khimar and the ahadith on it?

You seem very intelligent and it all makes sense..

You cannot deny clear words of the ahadith which are an explanation of what was revealed by Allah.. Plus why can’t you look at it from the other direction. Try justifying otherwise and things will be clearer. I am sure you conscience at the end of the day will testify that women should cover like the Prophet :saw: commanded.

From your discussion you are trying to understand thing in the context of time and the prevalent situation in the world. Everything that happens in the world is not necessarily right. Majority can also be wrong. Tomorrow if the norm of the day is not believing in any god than that does not mean that we also stop believing on God.

Peace.