hadeeth be it authentic or not, doesn’t make it RELIGION, that is the point here..its history and will remain a piece of cultural history. We are only saying that it remain history and not become something that is used in the same way as the Quran.
I dont reject Hadeeth, but object its use as a religious text.
hadeeth be it authentic or not, doesn't make it RELIGION, that is the point here..its history and will remain a piece of cultural history. We are only saying that it remain history and not become something that is used in the same way as the Quran. I dont reject Hadeeth, but object its use as a religious text.
astaghfar, don't you people actually THINK before posting garbage about religion? so busy trying to win the argument that all senses take leave. Chanda jee since when is ahadees regarded as a 'piece of cultural history' and not a part of our religion? do you know the implication behind your words? if hadees is just a random collection of 'history' where exactly does it leave the Prophet and his place in Islam?
i have not read the entire thread, i am taking this response of yours in the literal sense, word to word, do i need context behind your words to understand your stance and your argumesnt? why? think about it, if its not too much to ask.
Re: Majazi Khuda
(why are you saying astaghfar?) its a fact. Every hadeeth needs a reference, Unlike the Quran, and that makes it imperfect...
you may have to go thru all my posts to know what I have been objecting to..its hard to repeat stuff over and over again for 11 long pages.
now i dont want to fight over each and every one of your proposed definitions of religion.
*Hadeeth is in fact a historical document, (not random, your words not mine) Quran is the word of Allah, is it that confusing?
Prophet's place in Islam is of a Prophet, a messenger, a perfect example of a Muslim, a pious man with one agenda, one purpose. Unlike imams who try to prove their authority over different schools of Islam, His efforts were to unite his ummah under ONE law, one BOOK, and simple practical ideologies...
Re: Majazi Khuda
"These are God's revelations that We recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 45:6
Purpose of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
"The only duty of the messenger is to deliver God's message" 5:99
Our duty as Muslims is to obey the messenger as he brings Allah's message.
"Obey God and obey the messenger. If you shall turn away then the sole of the messenger is to deliver the message (the Quran)" 64:12
"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114
Prophet Muhammad followed the Quran as is...and that is Sunnah. If he did something on a day to day basis during his life, as a personal choice, it is what it is, a personal choice...not a law, the laws are found in the Quran.
*to say Quran is not enough, is telling Allah that his book is not enough? i hope you realize what you are saying.
Re: Majazi Khuda
17:46 "for, over their hearts We have laid veils which prevent them from grasping its purport, and into their ears, deafness. And so, whenever thou dost mention, while reciting the Qur'an, thy Sustainer as the one and only Divine Being, they turn their backs in aversion."
also fasadi, i know about the prayer argument, :) as i have said before and am saying it again....namaz/salat was practiced by thousands DURING our Prophet Muhmmad (pbuh)'s life, unlike the writing of hadiths...they were NOT.
You're right...the supplication of prayer was observed DURING the time of the Prophet (saw) as were his sayings. My point is that you were not alive during the his lifetime, yet you act upon a practice that was expressed to you through a chain of people...that is, the Prophet (saw) taught the people, who taught their children, who taught their children, so on and so forth. More than likely, you learned how to pray through your parents...how did they learn how to pray? How do they decide whether to fold their arms across their chest or keep them at their side, or to tap their finger while saying shahadah or keep it still? through hadiths!
The chain of hadiths works in a similar way....the sayings of the Prophet (saw) were heard by people during his lifetime, who went on and further spread what he said. Then scholars with much more knowledge than you or I verified the authenticity of these hadiths. All of that is determined by a science that included researching the people who spread the sayings and nullifying the hadiths if it included any person in the chain who was proven to have lied even ONCE in his or her lifetime. Of course, there are differences between people and the hadiths they choose to accept, but for someone to say that they dont accept any hadiths is I think calling their Islam into question as well because our religion is comprised of Quran and hadiths...Sunnat ar Rasool Allah is so important and we know about his life and his personality through the transmission of hadiths.
My point behind saying that was that hadiths were not WRITTEN, they were transmitted, much like prayer. If you don't accept hadiths in general, I just don't get how you accept prayer? Or why dont you do it in a random way rather than doing it in the methodical way taught via hadiths?
Re: Majazi Khuda
passing down of prayer/salat and its details is not the same as passing down cultural stories and putting a seal of religion on it. Thousands of people prayed during the time of our Prophet (pbuh) they performed hajj, gave zakaat, fasted...all these things are MAJOR..they makeup our faith..collectively they form a foundation...but the contradicting stories, ideas, and sayings that Imams try to pass as RELIGION are what I have been talking about. And I have said this before, this is exactly what happened to modern day Christians.
^ Even the hardcore ahlehadiths/wahabies do not reject ot stand up against sahih bukhari any other sahiah hadiths.
I wonder which sect you are from.
The 4 Scholars of al-sunnah also derive their teachings form only the KORAN and authentic SUNNAH- which you could go into depth and check if you had the time.
Additionally each of them humbly said at the time of thier classifications - if readers find any of thier work clashes or goes againsts the koran or authentic sunah they should disregard it.
and you really need to learn more from the koran
koran also says:
''go to the people of knowledge when you are unsure''- i.e. Scholars.
''obey and follow the words of the Prophet (pbuh)''- i.e his Sunnah/Hadiths.
''the ones in highest ranks after the Prophets are the scholars''
and numerous other exalts of the 'Scholars of islam.
You clear have narrow-minded knowledge on the matter.
All the 4 Imams of al-sunah did was merely classify and organize koran and Hadith data as opposed to inventing it. Although the extreme precisness they observed, They also humbly urged any of thier work to be disregarded appears to clash of cointradict the Koran or Sunnah.
Re: Split from Life1 thread (Hadeeth)
Here the qayamat comes ppl…
Chanda baita yahan post karna jab bari ho jao gi. If you are already a mature grown up woman, then I wonder if He forgot to put some aqal in your skull. But then again thats no possible, as He cannot make any mistake. So may be its you who has lost it somewhere, like left it unattended and some cat or mouse feasted over it. All your mistake , you should apply for another brain asap 
To be frank i dont feel like posting a serious reply to your retarted question. Cant believe ppl have so messed up views about their own religion. shrugs
Re: Split from Life1 thread (Hadeeth)
She is either that^, a hardcore Wahabie or Ahmadi.
My bet.
Re: Split from Life1 thread (Hadeeth)
none of the above^ nondenominational as a matter of fact...
if you are aware of the consequences of "dividing" the Ummah you wouldnt be talking.
Re: Split from Life1 thread (Hadeeth)
a) no one is disregarding Hadith
b) hadeeth is an important historical document..supplemental notes for a better understanding of the times of our Prophet (Islam has been around since Hazrat Abraham so has salaat)
c) Quran is the only word of Allah
d) Hadeeth is NOT the divine law
e) Following the Prophet (pbuh) means following what Allah sent down ie the Quran. If you dont listen and inject your OWN interpretation by putting an Imam's word next to Allah's, you are responsible for the misunderstandings.
d)Hadeeth is NOT religion..its not accounted for by ALlah...not protected by Allah...and our Nabi is not responsible for what was written in his absence.
*As i have said before...this is exactly what happened to the religions before Islam...where the divine word of Allah was diluted with MEN's work. *
btw narrow mindedness results in not being able to differentiate between the word of Allah and men. You nod your head to whatever is taught to you without ever realizing whether it is right or not.
why do you think millions of pakistanis and indian muslims go to dead sufi's graves asking for their dua's to be heard? its shirk! yet no one objects to it...just like no one objects to people making things haram that are not...and other false representations of Islam and its Laws...using texts other than the Quran!
There are numerous contradictions and misrepresentations concerning Islam due to Imams and other so-called scholars..who do you hold responsible? the masses are only but following things from here and there..majority of them dont even read the Quran with meaning...which makes them vulnerable and easy to manipulate.
Bukhari's writings have so many discrepancies...i could quote them, but i am sure you are educated enough to find them yourself.
regarding the quote you mentioned...''go to the people of knowledge when you are unsure''- i.e. Scholars who know and can explain the Quran as it is..NOT makeup contradictions, stories and laws people can quote for years to come...i have seen people quote the hadeeths in place of Quran so many times...
fairytale..mind your language..
i would appreciate it if the mods would close this thread.
a real ignorant.
although i admit there are dodgy schoalrs/imas around nowadays.
As i said before if you suspect the scholars judgements/advices- those which an ideal one should have extracted from the koran and hadith- then your welcome to scrutinize them.
Many laws, manners of worship, and religion further explanations of ayats of koran are extracted from hadiths i.e SAHIH bukhari and SAHIH muslim.
The koran said ' listen to your prophets word and obey him', - and as far as I know no koranic ayat restricted it to the koran.
ANd lady dont even dare questioning sahih bukhari or Muslim. They have been scrutinized and validated already authentic many times and by people much higher and knowledge in deen than you and me.
Therefore they are the authentic words of the Prophet and to be respected.
The problem that i agree is that occasionally for ordinary people, since we have not got context or higher knowledge certain hadiths can 'seem' awkward or dodgy to us. But it does not mean they are. Further reseach is sometimes required.
99% of sahih bukhari and sahih muslim would make perfect good sense to ANY ordinary human being, muslim or non-muslim.
Re: Split from Life1 thread (Hadeeth)
the general consensus here is NOT to argue with YOU.
what a waste of precious space and time.
why the heck are you arguing here? there is no argument..your basis of the argument is
"listen to your prophet(pbuh)...and obey him" which i have already referred to..and despite that..you keep going in circles...
not only that, you and some other "very knowledgeable" folks have subjected to name calling.
WOW. how typical.