Split from how many kids do you want

Lifestyle Relationships
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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

Ex...
Good for you and good for your unborn children.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

"I am a Marxist and if I wanted one, I might have a child through a surrogate mother, give it to another to breastfeed (was this not how your prophet was raised?)"

OUR Prophet (SAW) did not have a surrogate mother for your information. I am sure you can research that much while you're on the net. Second, I honestly refuse to see the point of this thread. Okay so you don't want children and you have repeatedly written that here, we get it. What are exactly are you getting at? Do you want peoples' opinions here or something? Or you're just here to announce "I don't want any kids because they are not worth this this and that." Add to that, at the end of every post, you have some self defensive paragraph about how someone is going to attack you or not agree with your points, blah blah blah. Well, what exactly do you expect? For everyone to agree with you and cheer you on for calling children waste of time, worthless creatures who should be handed off to the community after YOU have delivered them? I am sorry but majority of the people do not agree with whatever you have to say. And I am sure that is something you're already very well aware of. I am personally shocked at the kind of mentality and thoughts you posess. Your first post was somewhat understandable to me but from then on, it has just gotten weirder and weirder to the point where it seems to be coming from someone who thinks so high of herself that the idea of letting someone else share or take away that so-called-assumed self importance is just going to make your world crash. More than anything else, I think you just seem to be comparing your importance and your precious time with a baby who is not even in this world yet.

I am sure there are many "non-desi" friends of yours who will agree with what you have to say. I am even more sure that you would never regret your decision of not having a child. But at the end of it all, why exactly are you talking about it here again?

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

^ I don't think that Existentialist is saying that parents should toss of their children and have no responsibility. My understanding is that she is questioning the rigid roles of the nuclear family system, in which each parent must play a very fixed role. Your child is not just your own because you gave birth to her/him. It does make sense to consider how the shared responsibility would change our family structures as well as our own identities. Too many women think all they are is "mother" or "wife." When they are no longer needed to play those roles, they don't know what to do with themselves. Our identities should not be so completely defined by and dependent on our relationships with others. Though the role of the mother is certainly important, it is not all a woman has the potential to become.

And I don't think the "desi" "non-desi" issue is really relevant here. Many non-desis live by these more traditional family systems and many desis don't.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

^^ true, and actually, we have a non desi replying in this thread.

I agree that our gender roles should not be so rigid that we are unable to adapt to the change.

1st Quarter-Final: Pakistan v West Indies at Mirpur, Wed March 23
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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

I am sorry but that is exactly what it came across as. Before you even have a baby, you need to realize the fact that you DO need to bring in changes according to that baby's needs. Just like you need to modify things when you start working or going to school or marry someone, you need to accomodate a baby in your life too. It depends on the individual HOW much they want to change themselves or modify their needs. I know of some mothers who have sacrificed their careers and what not for their kids, when I have a mother who is a doctor and she has managed both her personal and professional lives very well. Did I get less attention than what most of my cousins did with their non-working or working but more devoted mothers? Yes. But I also can't hold it against my mom because I am in a way proud of her for not changing her identity or her life just because she decided to have children. She stayed true to herself all the while knowing how she needed to balance it all out. She wasn't around all the time raising me but she didn't just declare me to be a responsibility for the community and walk off. She was there when I needed her and she always had tremendous love for us.
Just because a woman doesn't want to change her preferences in life or her personality doesn't mean she can go hating on kids and blame them for changing her existence in this world. You can control your life, you can decide what you want to do for yourself. There's always a way to do it.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

The issue of roles based on gender really arent the issue as I see it. E was saying that she'd use a surrogate then a wet nurse then send "it" off to boarding school - assuming no role at all for herself other than "teacher". Addionally, theres this:

"The child would not be babied, patronized, and treated as a baby; he would be treated as an adult whose primary need is the cultivation of his mind.* He needs books and an abacus, a globe and a microscope, nature and a book on botany, not mothering and cooing and pacifiers* "

Ok, I think most of the planet - marxist or otherwise - can see that the above statement is pretty far off-base. Humans are social and require love and socialization. Babies are not exempt from this! And babies NEED to be treated as babies, not handed a microscope and an abacus and treated as an adult. That goes whether the primary caregiver is mom dad or hired help.

The rest of it - being marxist, genderless etc thats all well and fine if thats what you're into. But leave babies out of it and dont have them, yeah? It wont work in THIS world and its the child who'd pay the price.

E, can you truly imagine an infancy and childhood such as you envision? Didnt you receive parental love and guidance? What would your life have been like without all that?

I have to add here. You stated that you dont beleive in parenthood because it "arose from capitalism"....where on earth did that come from? Parenthood arose from nature and biology, yeah? I mean even animals nurture and PARENT their young.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

lol...mama... the statement you have quoted just made me laugh...it is so unrealistic...lol

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Re: How may kids you want to have?

Dear i doubt if you have read any scientific research at all on what is the best way to raise the children. If you indeed want to know, i can present some unbiased "scientifc" research on the topic and not mere conjectures.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

Miss fatale , with all due respect I really don’t see the real difference you are trying to point out here .Pardon me for acting opinionated and narrow minded but calling some one illiterate or solecistic is a lucid form of discrimination and unfairness in my books .

So according to your definition of illiteracy, which is indeed not coequal of UNESCO ‘s drafted one , any body who is not aware of ( a mild way of calling some one illiterate) Islam and unbiased Quranic research is ignorant and nescient.

So would you allow me to call her sappy and slushy, as she doesn’t seems to comprehend Islam, no way ! By any fair standard, it would be intolerance and partiality .

I hope we both agree on this mote , are we ?

I literally don’t care about Existentialist's views. Her personal choice and she is free to live by them .

If you remember my argument was a turkey shoot. One is not allowed to mock or jeer the religion, majority follow on this forum. Let us make it simple, no one is allowed to burlesque any religion/beliefs. Where the hell is the thing we call political correctness?

It was nice that you edited her (edited) comment she made in one of her posts but wouldn’t it be nice if you have given a reason while doing it ? . Same as you did with Iconoclast’s post .

I am not a religious person , who knows it better than my gang and you are one of them aint you ? But that (edited)thing really infuriated me .
If you cant stand for your religion and let people to ad hominem and call it names , what is the point following it ?

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

Aliyish I will explain myself to you hoping that you will stop derailing this thread.

Firstly Existentialist is not the one who started making judgemental remarks, she got called a bad mother first and told that she did the world a favour by choosing not to reproduce. What she said was a reaction. If we the apparent upholders of Islam and all idealogies right had not initiated this it doesn't seem like Existentialist would have replied using the term. My religious fervour, how I follow it and how I stand up for it is not the issue here. If I fail to keep myself in check you won't ever find me complaining about others losing their cool.

As for not having provided a reason for editing her posts as I did for Iconoclast, if you take the time to go back and read who edited which post you may realise that I am not the one who had edited that post by Existentialist so I would not be the one providing any reasons.

Now that I have answered your concerns I expect you to stay on topic since this is a serious thread. If you still find your mind unstatisfied please PM me but do not discuss it any further in this thread.

Thank you.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

Shay as the title of this thread suggests it was split from another thread asking about how many children people wanted t ohave. Existentialist only stated her choice but its everyone else who questioned her statement and choice which led to this debate and why she is talking about it here.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

I never thought moderators would show this much partiality to a certain someone who has nothing 'constructive' to discuss and is openly insulting people and religion. Just because peopple differ with her opinion, she has a right to hurl insults at whatever she wants? I DON'T think so. Whatever your justification may be, it refuses to fly. I haven't seen you point it out to her even once about what she's doing wrong but I assume that is only because you're so busy defending her instead. I refuse to be a part of such kind of a discussion.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

:k:

also want to add… I once read that a person that can make their point in 1-2 sentences and make it simple and clear to understand (for the common folk) is way smarter then one that writes a long paragraphs using complex words.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

don't know wot all the hostility is about. Existentialist did indeed have a different point of view but she was expressing it in a sensible way. It could have been the edited out part, but even after all the editing, the responses to her posts seem much emotionally charged than anything she said.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

really?

u mind pointing out where she did that.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

Thank you Chacha Ghalib. It amazes me to see how only few of the posters replied without getting hyped up about it and taking Existentialists POV personally yet most of them are accusing Existentialist instead. I think the narrow mindedness is being displayed by those who cannot fathom her POV and as a result are upset by it.

xoxo I appreciate the fact that you felt strongly enough about this to actually start posting at GS. If someone, based on your views which are justified in not only your eyes but several others too, starts calling you a bad parent, arrogant and expressing their hate for you, not your ideas but YOU, how sweetly would you respond? As I said before if you disagree with her ideology thats fine, debate it, refute it but without getting edgy.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

One word: Lame.
Please don't try to justify her calling islam hideous any further because OBVIOUSLY most of the people don't buy this stupid justification of it being a 'REACTION.' Oh wait, I am sorry- calling a religion hideous is not insulting to you in anyway so why am I bothering with saying anything when the moderator herself thinks that it's OKAY. As for your question, doesn't matter how angry I am, I would not stoop low to call someone's religious or faith a derogatory term like she has.

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

Alright I am done playing the mediator here. Who ever posts anything about who said what and why and what the mods did about it will get warning points and their post deleted.

1st Quarter-Final: Pakistan v West Indies at Mirpur, Wed March 23
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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

Existentialist are you in a same sex marriage? :hmmm:

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Re: Split from how many kids do you want

^ ouch. Not all females are cut out to be moms even if they play for the same team.

try carrying around 6-10 lbs around your stomach. tolerating huge amount of pain in unmentionables. sacrificing time and career, say good bye to social life etc. is a huge commitment in this day and age.

but, on the other hand. one look on the face of my first born was enough to make it all worth it and more. its not something that can be described in words and I guess the experience is unique for everyone.