The anti-Pakistani Kabuli Commies here are always talking about splitting Pakistan, lets talk about splitting Afghanistan instead.
I think Afghanistan is a war torn state and cannot survive on its own, and the various ethnicities hate each other there, they have a history of warfare for the last what 20-30 years, I think they should just be split up, based on the ethnicities. Pashtun dominated areas merged with Pakistan (the anti-pakistani pashtuns here dream about unification, this is the only way it can happen), Iran gets the farsiwans, and Uzbeks Tajiks etc can join the upper states. How does that sound?
How about no, if you split Afghanistan, this will work against Pakistan lol. The pashtuns will fight for their homeand, Baluch will fight for greater Balochistan, The northern areas will probably merge with Iran. However will the Azeris, and other ethnic groups think of this. An on top of that Iran isn't even pan-persian or pan-iran, therefore they will lead to those shia rather than blood relations. Nice try though.
Oh and we already tried govering Afghanistan using a proxy govt (talibobz) but when a dog stops obeying their master's commands, its ok for the masters to let the dog catchers imound/put them to sleep.
Yeh and it was this that was very hurtful to the pashtuns. I despise the pakistan government and ISI, Iam sorry but thats how it is. And masters stop obeying, lol, Taliban did stuff that the other afghan governments who were pro-pashtunistan couldn't do. At their time, in pashtun tribal areas like MOhmand(i believe) they raised the Afghan Flag. Good on them lol. However this doesn't change they were tools to Pakistan, and didn't do anything good for pashtuns(Afghans).
Can you name any One leader/party in the last century which did anything"good" for the pakhtuns and afghanistan.Any leader who brought some sort of economic prosperity in the afghanistan
Ghazi Amanullah was the only one. Unforetunately, he was a little rash in his attempts to modernize his people. British took advantage of this, and helped incite the tribesmen (certain tribes) and he was overthrown, only to be followed by the puppet and bandit Bacha-e-Saqao, Habbibullah Kalakhani. The durranis were not good thigns, or great afghans for the matter (Except for Ahmad Shah Baba, Ghazi Amunallah, Wazir Akbar Khan). Ghazi Amunallh was the last great king, he used to call himself the revolutionary king of the pakhtuns, unfpretunately we didn't avail the oppurtunity.
Dont worry Dsabz, we will do the governing, if you cant do it yourself. :)
You constantly dream about Pakistan's nwfp and baluchistan and sindh splitting, which will never happen inshallah, and when someone mentions ur beloved afghanistan, kitni marchain lag rahi hain lol
First Pakistanis should learn to govern themselves and then try to govern others. Dictatorships and military juntas should not teach people self governance.
DASBZ, the Tajiks and Uzbeks dont have much in common with the Pathans, yet you support NWFP joining Afghanistan, despite not having much in common with most of the people of Afghanistan. But you have no problem spliting Pakistan because you have nothing in common with the rest of the Pakistanis?!?!?!?
What about the wishes of actual Afghans, people who actually ARE citizens of Afghanistan and who dont want you?People who DONT want more Pashtuns joing their country… Any respect for their wishes?
With all due respect, you arent really an Afghan, you cant dictate your terms on actual afghan citizens.
The strange thing is even though these Afghan militias have fought each other to death there is not a single party or group in Afghanistan that wants independence. This could be for a number of factors In my humble opinion.
Afghanistan is a natural state based around the Afghan/Pashtun ethnicity. Afghanistan has a history dating back 5000 years. Pakistan on the other hand was a state created for Muslims but in reality it is a state which served British and now American interests within the region. Afghanistan has been a state long before Pakistan was dreamed about. The true or pure Afghans are the Pashtuns. The Uzbeks, Tajiks and Hazaras or not ethnically Afghans and the former two arrived in Afghanistan as refugees. They are lookk old Pakistani ID cards, I am not sure of the new ones, the Pashtuns of Mardan, Quetta etc have Afghan as their QAUM. A Pashtun cannot stop being an Afghan and will always continue to have strong and close links with each other, like a child with its mother. Pakistan you could say is a foster mother. As a whole it means no harm but still the relationship cannot beat that of mother and child.
Pakistan on the other hand is not a historical state but it has the geography to make it a good and successful state. It's main problem is it sees any minority culture outside of Punjabi as now a threat to its borders. The Urdu speakers of Hindustani origin who settled within Pakistan, who led the movement have seen a sharp reduction in their power and naturally are bitter. Pashtuns were the ones most likely to break away from Pakistan pre 1980 but now these titles go to Sindh and Balochistan now.
Why are nationalistic movements stronger in a relatively peaceful and stable Pakistan as compared to violent Afghanistan? I suspect it is because of the provincial arrangements along side the historical ethnicity argument. Afghanistan believe it or not has 30 plus provinces which could not function as small states. It probably has the most decentralised government with very little reliance on the central government in Kabul as compared to other nations. Although this is totally because of the wrong reasons. LOL. Pakistan on the other hand has big sized provinces and 2 tag alongs ie Northern Areas and Azad Kashmir. The provinces tend to have an ethnic majority too and more or less cut along ethnic lines except. Their are minorities but there is always a single ethnic majority too in each province. The key would be to cut these areas so that they form smaller units and possibly become less anti-state.
Afghan minorities are more nnationalistic than the majority Pashtuns now. They see the land up to the Indus as their land which rightfully it is but it can only be taken back if the people of NWFP wish it so and right now we all knwo the answer to that.
International Factors will also not allow Afghanistan to break up. A balkanisation of Afghanistan wil make the Pashtun cause stronger. The Americans right now need a stable Afghanistan because it is near Iran, Central Asia, China and Pakistan. The Americans do not trust Pakistan and if they feel they need to break it, they will do. One day they wil be after Pakistan too and the leader of Pakistan at the moment, Pervez Mosharaf has made things worse. Americans have a choice of supporting pro-right wing religious forces which it does not need anymore and are now considered the enemy or secular forces , which are nationalistic. Unfortunately nationalism is rearing its head again. Pashtuns have been alienated and so have Balochies. Had kalabagh dam gone ahead then Sindhis I am pretty much sure would have fought over this issue like they have never before. The warrior spirit would have surely emerged from the people of sindh
TMX wrote a funny little comment about masters and slaves. Unfortunately we all have masters now. Pakistan had control over things in Afghanistan it seemed until the Bamiyan Buddha's issue cae up. Not even Pakistani diplomacy saved that.
At the moment the USA sees Pakistan as a Primary Slave. Whatever order it issues is granted. And it breaks my heart to see that but we all have masters and slaves. Unfortunately at the moment we as Pakistan have the worst and most untrusted master.
We as a nation know what we getting from splitting the illegitimate entity of Pakistan and joining our brothers in the North. Tajik, Uzbek and Hazaras are our own people, they are as much Afghans as Pashtuns are. That's none of your business....None of our minorities have ever asked for seperation from Afghanistan. From 1992 -2002 where there was no government and no army, not a single ethnic group asked for independence from Afghanistan. Can you imagine Pakistan without its federal government and particularly its army/isi, even for a single day???
Afghanistan still stands as a solid rock. And that's the difference between a state and an artificial/temporary state.
Above you said that even if Pashtun part of Afghanistan is merged with Pakistan they’ll still fight for a separate land. But below you say that it doesn’t matter?
I do know that a few Uzbeks wouldnt mind an independant Uzbek province, but just dont see the need… A friend of mine who fought for the N alliance told me he doesnt have a lot of love for Afghanistan or much patriotism, but its just convenient…
Bkwas ka koi had nai… The same ones you claim are your own people are the ones who have indiscriminently killed god know how many of your people in the pursuit of self intrest. While they dont ask for independance, they see no problem in taking power by force and forcing you to live as refugees in Pakistan and Iran.. Get your head out of your arse… Afghanistan is a fake entity.. I deserves what its gotten. Your a bigger idiot then the rest if you expect anyone to beleve that everyone in Afghanistan is unified.. The lies these refugees tell!
