SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

Okay maybe I’m just biased in this matter; but it totally peeves me when people talk about adoption like they are doing the child some huge giantic favor.
Yeh let the bullets fly at me but you’re not doing anyone a favor but your damned self.

From a religious perspective you’re gaining a place near Prophet M (PBUH) in the after life. Caring for someone who can’t care for themselves is highly rewarded in our religion.

From a scientific POV; you’re making a positive change and that is good for you mentally and physically. You’re a more productive person.

In my case where I was having trouble concieving - my adoptive son; made me a mother! Who else in this world could have that much power and blessing?
I’m helping no one but myself.

I hate when people “oh inshahallah Im going to adopt when I get married to help the less fortunate” like they have no benefit from it!? And you tell me what relationship if any (romantic or otherwise) has ever survived on pity? The only basis for a good healthy relationship is LOVE!!!

:mad:

Sorry had to rant that out - its been building for a really long time.

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

Can I add my rant to this? Its not related to your one, but just something I thought of:

I hate it when people discourage adoption.. am I the only person who comes across that sort? I never used to think anyone actually would, but oh boy was I suprised or what. Why and how could you possibly discourage adoption? And the answers I have recieved to this question never ever make sense :konfused:

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

The rewards for taking care of an orphan are very high as are blessings and joy of being a parent to one.

Unfortunately we humans love to take credit for everything...

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

Rainbow, I dont know if its actually that people discourage adoption but rather point out the reality of it all. I mean, you meet vast numbers of people who say when they get married they want to adopt at least one child...but how many of these actually go out and do it? A really pathetically minute number. Why? because its a really tough thing to do. Its tougher than having your own. Legal fees, mountains of paperwork, endless interviews and investigations that continue for years, even after the adoption takes place. Many people assume that adoption is a simple matter of wanting a child, going to an orphanage and taking one home. The reality is that adoption is so much tougher than having a biological child.

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

^ oh I do understand that pov. I was specifically referring to a bunch of people who actually discourage it, in the sense that they believe it is something we should avoid (which is why I'm baffled) Some give cultural reasons and others find a way of linking religion to their views.. I wish I could explain more.. but I never actually understood myself.

Anyhow, sorry for sidetracking the topic at hand *Muniya *=)

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

Rainbow, I never knew adoption was discouraged or seen as a "bad" thing until...I joined GS. and read alternate perspectives on it. Yes islam has its stance on adoption, however to sayt that a child is better off being raised in an orphanage than to be adopted by a non-Muslim family (forget the homosexual part) shows the sad state of our people

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

sara...dont limit this to the desis! In china, where its a bad thing to give birth to a girl, there are many overflowing orphanages. These orphans can be adopted by an international parent IF and only IF ... the adoptive parents arent overweight and are free of facial blemishes. I mean what the heck???? So they'd rather an orphan wallow in pitiful orphanages than be adopted by an overweight parent. Or one who had a bad case of acne! There are other countries with restrictions just as ridiculous as this....so its not just the desis!

its not out of sympathy. Its to make someone's life better cause Allah gave you the ability to do so. That is what people mean.

Yeah it’s out of paranoia and everyone knows someone who knows someone whose adopted child abandoned them in old age or something. It’s bad.

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

Muniya -- It's tricky. As another person who had trouble conceiving, I definitely thought very seriously about adoption, and though I would definitely be doing it to enjoy the miracle of motherhood, I think a big part of the motivation is that it helps a child in need. Otherwise it is hard to give up so much of yourself, if you figure the other doesn't need anything back.

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

This is a subject that we have been discussing in my home for some time now. It appears to be picking up steam now so thank you Muniya for posting this thread as it will help me to share some of the views that we have been exposed to.

I am one of those that said I would adopt once I got married. I said this when I was in my teenage years and had little to no concerns or thoughts about fertility issues etc. So it was just something that I wanted to do to help a child in need. Was I being selfish then? I don't know if I even thought about it being an act to fulfill myself. I simply wanted to help someone that perhaps couldn't take care of themselves.

I got married and we have a six year old daughter alhamdulillah. The thought of adoption has never left me. My heart and mind keeps coming back to it.

I have family and close friends that have adopted. Most of them have done this because they have been unable to conceive or carry their own. They are thrilled to bits, so far, with their decision and thankful for the opportunity to be parents. I don't know yet how the stories will end (i.e. will the adopted kids abandon them in their old age or will they go off in search of their biological parents), but I am hopeful that these folks have made decisions for the right reasons and will be able to cope with whatever the outcomes may be, insha-Allah.

Recently when I shared my idea of adopting in a social gathering there were many people that voiced their concerns.......some of the messages are:

  • If you adopt you must follow the rules set out by Islam. So you cannot give them your name; they must retain there own. You must reveal to them that you are not their biological parent; they must be told that they were adopted.

  • If you adopt a female child she must do pardah from the father and if the child is male then as the mother you must do pardah from him. Unless you are able to nurse the child; then it's okay.

  • Consider the difficulties of comparison and preferential treatment between your biological child and the adopted one.

  • Consider that when it comes time to seek a suitable spouse for that adopted child, cultural bias or preconceived notions may hinder them from a "good rishta" since their lineage will be unknown.

  • Why do you want to adopt if you can have your own and you have no fertility issues? And if there are fertility issues why do you not seek treatment for them first before resorting to adoption?

  • What if the adopted child has other issues (e.g. physical or mental) that are not apparent at birth? When these come to light how will you handle them?

  • What if the child's parents come looking for him/her once they are able to support them?

  • What if the child decides that he/she has a burning desire to seek out his/her biological parents?

I'm going to leave the post at this stage and come back with my answers once I have read some of your feedback.

Do you agree/disagree with the above points of view/concerns and are there others that you would add?

Recently when I shared my idea of adopting in a social gathering there were many people that voiced their concerns.......some of the messages are:

  • If you adopt you must follow the rules set out by Islam. So you cannot give them your name; they must retain there own. You must reveal to them that you are not their biological parent; they must be told that they were adopted.

**I know this won't be a popular opinion but how many of us follow Islam to the letter? i get that everyone should strive to follow Islam to the best of their abilities....but say if you don't pray 5 times a day, or don't fast even if you can, or don't wear hijab, or you ogle women, whatever...can you really give hte argument that Islam doesnt allow it?

With that said, if we ever adopt...they will have their father's name but they will know where htey come from. **

  • If you adopt a female child she must do pardah from the father and if the child is male then as the mother you must do pardah from him. Unless you are able to nurse the child; then it's okay.

**Again I know this won't be a popular thing to say, but you gotta hae common sense. Who falls in love with their parent or their child? its sick and if that happens...that's more cz the parent is sick in their mind..not cz the child didn't do pardah!

Btw--most desi girls that i Know of at least, do have some sharam and hayaa in front of their fathers, they will not wear shorts or even short sleeves, and these are biological daughters. If even biological daughters have this pardah then most likely adopted ones will too, if the parents raise them that way.
**
- Consider the difficulties of comparison and preferential treatment between your biological child and the adopted one.

*Are you asking about treatment within the family or by extended family members?
I am 100% sure that nobody in my in laws or my immediate family and some extended family, will treat my adopted child badly or worse than if it had been our biological child. And if they do--we cut our ties with them. simple as that. *

  • Consider that when it comes time to seek a suitable spouse for that adopted child, cultural bias or preconceived notions may hinder them from a "good rishta" since their lineage will be unknown.

*Marriage will come when, 15-20 years down the line? why worry so much now? I firmly believe that its all kismet. If its meant to happen it can happen. *

  • Why do you want to adopt if you can have your own and you have no fertility issues? And if there are fertility issues why do you not seek treatment for them first before resorting to adoption?

  • What if the adopted child has other issues (e.g. physical or mental) that are not apparent at birth? When these come to light how will you handle them?

That's the only reservation I see with adopting. It can be tough to deal with but then again, what if the biological child God forbid, develops physical or mental issues? Wouldn't we handle it the same way as if it were a ibological child?

  • What if the child's parents come looking for him/her once they are able to support them?
    **
    Aren't there laws that suport the adoptive parents?**

  • What if the child decides that he/she has a burning desire to seek out his/her biological parents?

*I dont know.
*

I guess you can see i really don't agree with many points. some of them are valid, i.e. health issues, but other than that........

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

Now this is a debate that has value. Being a single guy, adoption has never been a subject of discussion. I want my own kids. Its pretty much a guy thing. I want the family name, the genes etc carried on. Its something else to have a child that is your own flesh and blood. However considering one of my friend will have to adopt to have any chance of having a child I find it an intriguing concept.

Its kinda like a symbiotic relationship. Both the parent and the adopted kid benefit from it. So its adoption as an act is not a negative action. However it is by no means a selfless act which is Muniya's main point. One has to realise and accept that when adopting a child you are also doing it for yourself. You are not a saint. You aren't a hero. You are doing it for selfish reasons. Which again is not a bad thing. A couple who can not have off-spring adopting a child is a very generous and noble act as both realise they are doing it for themselves and also for the child. It is a symbiotic relationship.

As for the religious debate on adoption, no way qualified to give an opinion as with most Pakistanis our knowledge of religion itself is limited and based on hersay. Unless someone backs up these comments with actual hadis and sources, I will be very wary of entering such a debate.

However to add to Muzna's comments, a lot of the female comments are based on the assumption you are adopting an infant. What about children that are above the age of 8?

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

I have always wanted to adopt a child and it upsets me when I see or hear of people objecting or being against it. I want to yell at them but I politely say "lets just agree to disagree" and leave it at that.

Some people will say if you can have kids, why would you want to adopt? I dont know what Allah swt has planned for me but adoption is something I just feel pulled towards like a magnet. I want to do it. So, whether I have a child naturally or not will have no bearing on my decision to adopt a child, I still would want to do it even if I had children of my own.

Some ask if I will be able to be a fair parent with my biological children and adopted children. Im not a parent so its hard for me to say what I will be like but I know I will try my best to look at my adopted child the same way as I would my biological and treat both fairly.

Adopted children are never your own. This one always cracks me up because these days parents lose their own children due to bad parenting, bad company, bad marriages, etc. My biological child doesnt come programmed to stay with me through thick and thin...both will behave the way they're brought up I guess.

One thing someone said to me that hurt me to core was "childbirth is necessary to become a mother, you will never be a mother until you give birth". It almost made me cry because I know people who have adopted. Their love is not a real mother's love?

Muniya, your child isnt less fortunate and I know it hurts when people say that because to you, he is your own. If I were you, I wouldnt share his adoption with everyone because it becomes a source of gossip for some people. The ones who need to know will know and thats it. If people pry wanting to knowing about his birth, pregnancy, etc which often happens then change the subject, get busy or pretend as if he needs you and leave.

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If I was a mom, I know I would love the adopted child with my full heart and effort, however I know I would also get a special joy from seeing my bio child having a 'jhalak' of my mom's smile or my husband's walk. I guess I could say "well it's possible that my child would have zero in common with me just like any adopted child" but when i ask myself, "would i ever want to willfully become sterilized?", my heart jumps, even though I know i could adopt at anytime!

So i feel like deep inside, since I wouldn't be ready to trade off my fertility in exchange for an adopted child...means that I do value a bio child. But LOGICALLY, I feel like I would give both kids the same consideration. but then why do i want a bio child? that means it IS important to me.

Think About it...would you want to marry a guy who was sterile? And have yourself be sterile as well? If yes, that means you see absolutely NO difference between a bio kid and an adoptive kid. If no, it means your own has a special place which adoptive cannot fill. However, I think it doesn't have to be a dramatic diff like people think...it can be like the difference between my love vs. my mom's love for my brothers.

Sorry honey I've been out of the loop for a bit - here's my take on these.

First and formost; about the whole leaving adoptive parents for biological.
Not all biological children stay with thier parents all thier lives; why is an adoptive child leaving such a bigger deal?

As for wanting to find out who you're bioligical parents were; lets put the shoe on the other foot. If you were adopted wouldnt you want to know why and who? And does that make your love/attachment appreciation for the adoptive parents. I dont think so - it just take mutual understanding on behalf of both parties.

CM not to tuurn you off or anything lekin when you say you want "my" kids - you're adoptive child is your kid. And if you can't make then distinction then adoption probably isnt for you.

Agree with you on the last point; its much harder for older children.
I think its that much easier to bond with an infant; when I was adopting my 6 month old son, there was another couple who adopted a 5 yrs old. OMG that child definately gave his new family a run for the money; he'd hit them in ppublic and I could see that there was much work to be done there. Honestly that scared me.

You don't give up your infertility for an adoptive child.

I think your mixing two issues here; infertility and adoption are NOT interchangeable. People have adopted for many reasons - and infertile people have chosen not to adopt many times. One doesnt mean you can't have the other.

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

Adoption is a very complex issue.
I prefer to say that it has nothing to do with fertility issues.

I have one aunt that has never adopted while she has been unable to have her own biological children.

I have another that adopted a baby only hours old because she was so longing to be a mother and couldn't have her own.

Re: SPINOFF: Adoption Based on Pity

sigh

Yes very complex...

but I love what CM said; we're no saints.