Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

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For the last couple of months I have been planning and researching on doing a MBA from the States. I have completed my essays/personal statement/letter of recommendations etc. In short everything is in line except for the GMAT which I will be giving in a month or two. My work experience is diverse (Public Sector, MNC job & entrepreneurial) and international (Middle East and Pakistan) so I feel that I have a pretty good chance at landing an admission at a top 10 ranking uni in the States.

I will only be applying to top schools like Wharton/Harvard/Booth/Columbia/Stanford/Stern. The expected bill is around $200,000 (around $170,000 for 2 years as stated on their websites + $30,000 for other miscellaneous expenses). Why am I going for a MBA? I have always wanted that international exposure and since I couldn’t go for study abroad during my bachelors (due to various reasons), now is the chance. Plus and most importantly, I have always wanted to work for an investment bank like Goldman Sachs/JP Morgan/Morgan Stanely etc. So much so that I am willing to forgo my current business and incur huge opportunity costs for a chance to work for these firms.

Now the issue is that a couple of friends say that a MBA from these top schools wont guarantee you a $100k/year job (or even a job at all). This is pretty surprising, considering the careers stats on the websites of these schools. I realize that those stats may not depict the true picture, therefore I am posting this here to ask all of you (who are in the States or know someone). Can a Pakistani easily get a job in the States after a MBA from these schools? Do firms/investment banks hire foreigners (especially Pakistanis) or do they prefer local Americans? Is work visa/H1 a hassle firms want to avoid? In short, would I be wasting my $200,000 if I decide for a MBA from these schools or not?

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

If you get the grades and interview well, you could get a well-paying job in the industry of your choice. But merely getting a degree from these universities (even the best) does not ensure that you will get a job in the industry of your choice that pays $100K right out of the gate.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

Besides MBA is all about networking. At these prestigious schools you'd certainly have a shot at making connections that you can leverage.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

^ Exactly!

But, I think OP shouldn't assume that anything is a sure thing in this market.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

Those schools will definitely help you in terms of recruiting because they’re target schools. The best employers in the country will hold information seminars on campus, allowing you to network to your heart’s content. This does not guarantee you a job however. Everyone in your class ,as well as people form non-target schools are competing for the same positions.

The key to getting in, with or without an MBA, is networking. You have to cold call, or reach out to your social circle to try to get some face time with someone who works at a bank. Check out wallstreetoasis. It’s a website where a lot of employees from the firms you mentioned hang out. There is a ton of information there, free information, that can help you.

Attending one of these schools does not guarantee a job, but if you’re willing to put in some effort, it can net you a job paying in excess of $100k relatively easily. Moreover, it can get you interviews. Anyone with HBS on their resume is usually going to get at least an interview. It’s a huge cost, and these schools do give you a better shot, but they don’t guarantee anything.

I would advise preparing yourself and applying to these schools, as well as some safer schools, just in case. Check out beatthegmat.com and “gmat club”. They have amazing information to help prep you. My quick advice for the gmat:

  • download the two official GMAC tests but save them. One for about halfway through your studying and one near the end.
  • get the official GMAT practice book and work, and re work the questions. Seriously, do them again and again if you have time
  • the Manhattan tests and books are also very good. I would suggest buying the Manhattan guide as well.
  • look for free tests. Manhattan has a free one, with a good post-test diagnostic.
  • lastly, after you’ve familiarized yourself, time your practice problems and simulate the tests as close to the real thing as you can, i.e. no water or food while writing, take the 10 minute breaks between sections, and do the entire test in one sitting.
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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

What bothers me is that average/median salaries as per career stats of these schools is more than $125k/year. Still you feel $100k/year is a long shot? Infact, I am not after a $100k job. I want certainty and a job which I love. I would be fine with $80k too. As far as the grades are concerned, I am pretty sure I will impress a lot of people. Curriculum in Pakistan is quite comprehensive and since I already have a MBA from Pakistan, I do feel I have an edge. Secondly, since the admissions process is quite rigorous with filters like work experience/GMAT etc. I feel anyone who graduates from these schools would be an good potential for employers.

But then this is what I feel and I am looking for validation...

This uncertainty is exactly what I am worried about. Do you know anyone or have heard of anyone who is still unemployed after graduating from a top ranking school?

True. I have experienced the power of alumni during my stint at a MNC.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

If you already have an MBA, I am not sure how having two MBAs would look on your resume. Or you dont plan to include the one received from Pak?

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

No I don't plan on showing that. Moreover you can't really compare a MBA from a top US school with a Pakistani school so my previous MBA will never end up on my CV

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

@X2

would be able to provide some keen insight as well as those that are already active in this thread.....

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

Then as they say, consider the price of an MBA as a sunk cost. Also keep in mind the avg salaries stats can be misleading. Someone fresh out of grad school with relatively less real world experience will not always be able to make the stated median income at least initially.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

In big professional organizations, school name can get you an Interview call but rest of the part pretty much depends on how you perform during an interview. In some cases (very few) it might get you a job too but then again, keeping the job will depend on how you perform on-job.

Area where these schools can help you the best is professional networking.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

Here are the stats which you must have already seen for Harvard:

The point of the above is - depending on the job market (which has obviously improved since the worst in 2008-2009), there were some grads unemployed even after 3 months. So, there are no guarantees. Yes, the median base salary is definitely impressive and the chances of employment are pretty good. But you also need to look at initial employment and sustained employment.

Contrarian commented on it - but it’s worth repeating, the network and contacts you make out of these top-tier schools is one of the best and that in itself might make the degree worth it. The name recognition of a top-tier MBA is immediate and yes, I have seen first-hand an MBA graduate at the C-management level recruit other MBA graduates from his alma mater.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

well, they even dont look at your degree/transcript. it is all about interview where you need to perform confidently. :chai:

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

lets separate two things

1) investment banking with a top Ibank
2) a $100K+ job

if you go to a top 10..hell forget top 10, top 20-30 schools for an MBA, and have a few years experience, 100K or close should not be a stretch at all. it was not 10 years ago, and it is not today.

now investment banking jobs are tougher to get because there is a lot of competition, so it is all other top 10-20 school grads fighting for the best roles at the best companies. so at that point while being from lets say wharton puts you above someone from michigan or penn state, now you are competing with everyone who has had the same type of 'badge' and that is where how your own ability, performance, prior experience, networking with alumni and all will help.

a degree from a top rated uni will not only help you with what you start off with, but next steps and how quickly you can move up or jump ship to a different role.

I have friends and connections who have done MBAs from booth, kellogg, stern, wharton and aside from a couple none of them are currently unemployed and none of them are making less than 100K. on the other hand I have friends who went to kellogg or booth who are under employed (still around 100K or above but not matching their peers) because while they have the degree, they were on the company sponsored part-time mba program, they simply dont have the chops. At some point, an employer is not willing to pay for a top 10 degree if the individual is not capable of doing the work as well as expected. So based on degree and years of experience they want a job they see some of their peers have, but dont realize that either their own ability/presentation is in the way or that their peers had better experience prior to the MBA or immediately post MBA and its not the same.

if i were in your shoes, I would go for it. do not look at MBA as a sunk cost but an investment that pays dividends for a long time. it can open avenues others simply dont have. lets just say not all companies interview at all universities. The chances that goldman sachs is interviewing students at wharton is much higher than them interviewing students at oklahoma state. yes...how well you do in the interviews is all you, but the opportunity to be considered is critical, if you are not in front of the people, then regardless of how good you are, you can't make an impression...and getting attention of recruiters at these joints is not easy.

I did not go to a top 10 school for my MBA, (did an executive mgmt program at a top tier uni later for this very reason) although the specific program at the school was in top 10-15 and it has always helped me not just in that it had the rankings and ppl knew, but it had a certain level of rigor, structure, thought leadership behind it that generic programs did not have and it prepared me much better. That being said, I have had people report to me who are from higher pedigree schools and the quality varies significantly, I have even fired top 10 MBAs.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

^ That’s not necessarily true. If you are being recruited out of grad school, in order to get an interview with many firms, they ask you for your CGPA. That will get you in the door. Then the rest depends on your interview.

P.S. I don’t have a business background, X2 really is the best resource for this information - he knows his stuffs :slight_smile:

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

Sorry, got my terminologies mixed up. Meant to say opportunity cost, rather than sunk. Though for me it is most likely the latter. :(

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

depends on the industry… i recently start working at Neilson and they did quite a background checks maybe because i was being hired for executive post.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

agreed- at MBA interviews, employers interviewing at a uni set their criteria e.g. only talking to finance and accounting majors ..or strategy and marketing majors..(depending on roles) with above 3.5 GPA and 3 years experience. if jack dont have it, jack dont get to interview with them regardless of how much phannay khan jack maybe in an interview.

if an MBA grad is looking for jobs outside it can vary, some companies ask for your GPA, some dont. regardless if i am interviewing fresh grads and one has GPA on and another ones does not, the one with the GPA has an upper hand all things being equal.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

if i was in your shoes, i would give it a shot. the risk is quite low when we are talking about loan of 200k at graduate level. if you are able to secure MBA from one of top10 school, 100k+ is a starting. in the coming decades the dividends will keep rolling.

.... and think about what x2 wrote.

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Re: Spending $200,000 on a MBA?

Dont let the brand police beat you up for misspelling Nielsen :)
Nieslen has an extremely thorough background check, ask them for a copy of the report, you will be surprised at what all they pull.