Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
But if we are talking 'values' and not 'government system', Musilm societies 200 years ago and to a lesser degree in SA today, the values are not necessarily modern or a whole lot different than prophet times, are they?
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
They are :)
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
Really, how so? I'm not talking about the companions or the cream of the crop of early Muslims, but the followers in general. How are the values different?
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
Anybody?
I often hear that today's Muslims have different values than Muslims of Islam's glory years. How are the values different? Not in western socieities where the values and societies are obviously very different, but in very Muslim societies like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. Where/how have they strayed?
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
That's because Afghanistan is occupied by your Kafir masters, Christians. If they haven't been able to completely kick them out then at least they can warn Christian Missionaries who propagate Christian-Polytheism through bribing the poor.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
Let's face it, there is a basic lack of fairness in Islam. What is the penalty for converting to Christianity from Islam? "Islamic countries" will allow people to practice a religion, but not expand a religion except by birth. If we subjected *you guys *to the same limits in western countries you would scream bloody murder.
This is because poor Muslims don't bribe rich Kafirs (Christians and others) in Western Countries in preaching Islam but Christians, having a ridiculous religion, bribe poor nations in order to increase number of Christians. The same they did and have been doing in Africa, Asia etc to all poor nations.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
I often hear that today's Muslims have different values than Muslims of Islam's glory years. How are the values different? Not in western socieities where the values and societies are obviously very different, but in very Muslim societies like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. Where/how have they strayed?
I'm back. Sir, the foundation of a muslims belief rests on his awareness of Allah and his submission to Allah. In other words as long as you realize that there is someone who can reign you in you tend not to go astray or at least keep yourself in check. Todays muslims have become so ignorant of the fact that Allah is watching them and judgement is looming on everyone on this earth. This is one of the things non-muslims and many muslims are not realizing or even if they know then they are turning a blind eye. When we say this is the truth what is meant is that things that Allah has revealed to mankind through the Quran are true and will come to pass. And when it does you should be prepared. If you end up on the wrong side it will not be pleasant for you.
The first and foremost value is how much God fearing are you or how much do you really believe in the existance of Allah, which if you do then to what extent are you conscious of this fact in your daily lives. Past muslims were much more God fearing and ominiscent of this fact whereas todays muslims are not. This is something that has crept into muslims by picking non-muslims ideals over the time. There is nothing wrong in recognizing non-muslims for good work that they do however the truth that we believe in should not be forgotten at anytime.
A very simple example, you will find ahadith where it is mentioned that the Prophet SAW has said very harsh things about those who neglect prayer or even put them outside the fold of Islam. It was unheard of in the time of the Prophet SAW that some muslim is neglecting or deliberately missing prayer. Todays muslims probably prioritize prayer at the bottom of their list (and I am guilty of this as well many a time) even though they realize this is the among the fundamental acts of worship, which we are not excused from, still we do not do it and we know the consequences of not doing it. So in other words we are rebelling against Allah after we have recognized and agreed to the truth he has conveyed to us. This is also called defiance. Defiance of Allah is only to our detriment and you can see the corruption running rampant in muslim world now. The shallowness of order, dedication and devotion.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
Exactly as I said, Christianity is a baseless religion for ignorant fools, who lack common sense and believe in silly tales, all they depend on is exploiting poor nations, giving them food in order to buy their faith.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
The first and foremost value is how much God fearing are you or how much do you really believe in the existance of Allah, which if you do then to what extent are you conscious of this fact in your daily lives. Past muslims were much more God fearing and ominiscent of this fact whereas todays muslims are not.
So you are basicallys saying it is the lack of fear of God and not following a strict prayer regimen? While I don't pretend to know the praying habits of a billion Muslims, from my prospective it does not appear that they lack in the fear of God or that he is constantaly watching.
Outside of that, I really can't tell what you are saying is different from today's Muslims to those of yesteryear. What values are different?
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
Muslims are not hypocrites like Western Christians, who are racist Enemies of Islam. Poor Muslim nations e.g Pakistan and Afghanistan treat religious minorities so well and you wouldn't hear that Christians in Pakistan or Afghanistan are forced to enter Islam. It is only Christian Freaks in Pakistan who often burn Quran to hurt religious feelings of Muslims. You would never see Muslims attacking Christians physically or emotionally.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
Outside of that, I really can't tell what you are saying is different from today's Muslims to those of yesteryear. What values are different?
In easy words, today's Muslims are not good, but they have been infected by the dirty culture of Westerners through their aggression for wealth and power or their media, so this is true that Muslims (as a whole) of today lack those values which come with Islam. But important is that even in this state, they are not hypocrites and oppressors like Christians.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
OG, the immigrants were persecuted in what way? Economically or religiously? If economically then why the need to form a secular society where religion has been divorced from the governmental system. Democracy is just a methodology for selecting an opinion or a course of action or some representative. In other words do what the majority thinks is right. Democracy is very similar to the concept of Ijtihad that existed hundreds of years ago in Islamic societies. However a subtle difference is that people who make decisions must be well versed in the decision they are making. Another methodology that has existed for centuries is Shura, which democracy is similar to. Shura is the majority vote of people. Now the biggest difference when this is done under the Islamic fold is that whatever decision or majority vote happens should not violate the religion whereas western form of democracy has no means to check itself other than the people itself. So as the interests or morals of the people get more and more convoluted and degrading so does the system policies. People in western democracy are not bound by a universal truth that are supposed to uphold.
I do not disagree with a lot of facts you have pointed out but the conduct of the so-called flag bearers of democracy are not doing a good job either. Show me one muslim war which is even comprable to the mass muder or killing of millions compared to the world wars. Islam did not spread across the world with such a heavy price on human life as democracy has in just over a 100 years. I'm sure if you have any sense you cannot dispute this. Yes there is a lot of corruption and un-Islamic conduct running rampant in muslim countries but lets not forget most of these countries were carved out of the world wars and their systems were based on partial non-muslim adminitrative principles married with a muslim population. Western justice has created these never ending problems. Just take Palestine for instance, the Britons created a two prong deal to create an Arab confederation and then a jewish homeland in the same region. How can you blame muslims for that conduct. The plan was bound to fail as is proved by 50 years of violence. And USA did not flourish because of a democratic system but rather because it largely remained by war throughout the two world wars. Its economy remained strong. I am not denying that it has given a lot in the today world however in terms ideology it has no right to enforce it on others. USA has no regard for religion which is why it embraced secularism. Secularism is void of a principle that forms any foundation. It changes based on wordly interets whereas if you ever understood a muslims life you would have figured out we care less about this world compare to the hereafter, in other worlds materialistic views. Assimilation with western life style has bereft muslims of their basic ideology and which is why you see them now in limbo. And if you think that Islam has no tolerance then go visit Israel, the jewish homeland and you will see how much tolerance Judaism teaches for others but USA fails to acknowledge that because Israel is looking out for their interests in that region. Which brings me again to the point that secularism has no ideology.
I think you would not find Dubai attractive if it payed squat after having all these liberties.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
Outside of that, I really can't tell what you are saying is different from today's Muslims to those of yesteryear. What values are different?
Sir, first you don't know anything about Islam in terms of living a muslim life so its better not to make commentaries on how our values are supposed to be. And for me I feel like I am talking to a wall when I mention this stuff as well.
So lets talk by way of commonalities i.e. humanitarian values that are found in your culture and Islamic culture as well. Now address your question to me? Thank you.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
Very well stated USResident. It was really nice to read your views and knowledge :k:
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
I often hear that today's Muslims have different values than Muslims of Islam's glory years. How are the values different? Not in western socieities where the values and societies are obviously very different, but in very Muslim societies like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. Where/how have they strayed?
sorry after the thread was moved I didn't check it back.
How the values are different?
Greed, value of money, selfishness, justifications to committ sins/crimes, respect of rich people (irrespective of their source of income i.e. legal/illegal), some people (read people in government) being above the law etc, selling of justice .... I don't know where the list will end, but I hope it gives you an idea of how different we have become from what they were during/not-too-late-after Prophet PBUH.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
So lets talk by way of commonalities i.e. humanitarian values that are found in your culture and Islamic culture as well. Now address your question to me? Thank you.
What do you know of my knowledge of living a Muslim life? Anyway, I'm not making commentaries about how it is supposed to be, rather what Muslims mean when they say Muslims have gone astray today.
As far as commonalities in humanitarian values, I think they are/should be the same acrosee different cultures. Respect and active involvement in the advancement of human welfare and social reforms should not be restricted to certain societies, cultures or religions.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
How the values are different?
Greed, value of money, selfishness, justifications to committ sins/crimes, respect of rich people (irrespective of their source of income i.e. legal/illegal), some people (read people in government) being above the law etc, selling of justice .... I don't know where the list will end, but I hope it gives you an idea of how different we have become from what they were during/not-too-late-after Prophet PBUH.
Do you believe that is common across the board, or are some socieities still more "Islamic" and adhere to its principles? Are the countries that are more 'westernized' more likely to be astray?
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
These are common almost across the board, of course there are variations in levels of each from society to society.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
Thanks for the reply, I've often wondered what was meant by that.
I think across the board man has become more obsesessed with money, selfishness and material things. Life used to be a lot simpler and people were more spiritual, spending time with families. Being happy meant be safe, secure and have food on the table.
Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan
Democratic government is the full form of dictatorship. By giving some stupid freedoms to public they're making them fool.
Let's take american example from last few years. How many protests we've seen against the wars, i'm sure tons of them. People did have freedom of speech, therefore they spoke out! *However, did any one hear about what they said or acted upon their wishes? *