South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

[Captain1]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

@AllahkaBanda

Democratic government is the full form of dictatorship. By giving some stupid freedoms to public they're making them fool. Let's take american example from last few years. How many protests we've seen against the wars, i'm sure tons of them. People did have freedom of speech, therefore they spoke out! *However, did any one hear about what they said or acted upon their wishes? *

I agree on fooling part, but wouldn't really agree on "dictatorship" part. Dictatorship would be something like Saudi Arabia.

[USResident]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

@Seminole

What do you know of my knowledge of living a Muslim life? Anyway, I'm not making commentaries about how it is supposed to be, rather what Muslims mean when they say Muslims have gone astray today.

As far as commonalities in humanitarian values, I think they are/should be the same acrosee different cultures. Respect and active involvement in the advancement of human welfare and social reforms should not be restricted to certain societies, cultures or religions.

Sir, again you cannot debate what a muslim thinks if you are not one. When muslims say they have gone astray it simply implies that we are not following the principles of our religion, not very complicated to express. We only profess our faith at our lips, not in our hearts and not in our actions. No one helps you if you don't try to help yourself not even Allah.

Please give examples of human welfare and social reforms as these are very broad terms you are using.

[Seminole]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

@USResident

Please give examples of human welfare and social reforms as these are very broad terms you are using.

I was addressing your broad term "humanitarian values" that are found in differnt cultures. I think the definition would be the same. A moral obligation to care for your fellow man (regardless of their religion) and improve society.

[USResident]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

@Seminole

I was addressing your broad term "humanitarian values" that are found in differnt cultures. I think the definition would be the same. A moral obligation to care for your fellow man (regardless of their religion) and improve society.

Agreed that caring for other human beings is definitely a value but in what perspective. Does caring only imply caring for those who need some kind of financial assistance, medical assistance and even assistance in making them realize the truth of this life and why they exist, why you and me exist? Material help is not the only kind of care, the first and foremost is to establish the truth of this life to a person who lives in it. Its like spending your fathers money without realizing how hard he has worked or with what intention he works to bring it to the household.

What Allah wants from us is understood through his message or the religion he chose for mankind? It is not learned by helping humanity. From a muslims perspective, life does not end in this world, after we die it will continue in a dominion we cannot experience unless we are dead or in other words what we call the Hereafter or afterlife. Another thing for a muslim is that the afterlife is eternal whereas this worlds life is just transitory meant to prepare us for the afterlife and test us through this world. Now to put things into perspective, for a muslim it is more important to help others regarding the hereafter since that life is eternal and never ending. This life will be over when Allah has so decreed. So to us a value is also calling you to the religion of truth besides helping humanity in this world. So to us even if you have done little to help humanity other than just live your life but you are on the true beliefs that Allah has ordained for us then we have achieved our purpose of creation in this life.

Think about it from another angle, what has the humanity at large done for you which you are working so hard to better as compared to Allah who has created this infinite universe, this earth and its pleasures, its resources, your existence and everything in your life, the God given intelligence that you are using to help humanity, your talents that you are using to help humanity etc, this is all from Allah, do you not owe him first then? You are working so hard to improve your relationship with humanity which has done so little compared to what Allah has done for you yet we do so little in terms of anything for Allahs sake. This is the key, if you can understand this you will come closer to understanding what it is to be a true believer (please do not stereo type examples of people who are muslim by identity but not by conduct in reply to this).

[USResident]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

And all the guns have fell silent ...

[teaser]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

^ Way to go USREsident specially your last lengthy reply with much more clear and simple detailed info. :k:

[Seminole]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

@USResident

And all the guns have fell silent ...

Because of shock over your opinion that God cares more that we worship at his feet than help mankind. That it is more important to hope for an after life of pleasure instead of trying to make this world a better place for others. As if he would rather you spent useless time, energy and resources to fall all over yourself praising him when you could be doing something to help others. As if God needs your praise or help instad of helping powerless victims who really need your help.

I'm not talking about financial assitance, but any help that a person needs. That could include spiritual guidance, food, shelter, a kind word, someone to talk to, a job, whatever.

You say you can do little to help humanity, but live your life as God has ordained and you would have achieved our purpose. I say they are one in the same. Helping your fellow man is more important than how many times you bow to Mecca on any given day.

[Lahore_981]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

^ Aunty Seminole
I am gonna reply to your post in "Judo-Christian armies attrack kabba" Please read it a little later

[mercenary2k]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

@Lahore 981

^ Aunty Seminole I am gonna reply to your post in "Judo-Christian armies attrack kabba" Please read it a little later

yo lahore, how do u know seminole is an aunty?

[USResident]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

@Seminole

Because of shock over your opinion that God cares more that we worship at his feet than help mankind. That it is more important to hope for an after life of pleasure instead of trying to make this world a better place for others. As if he would rather you spent useless time, energy and resources to fall all over yourself praising him when you could be doing something to help others. As if God needs your praise or help instad of helping powerless victims who really need your help.

Madam, helping others is also a worship. I think you are not clear about the concept of worship and helping, they are not separate things in Islam and are embodied in one another. Helping to save someone from going to the hellfire is also an act of worship and the most significant one. Everything in this life is transitory. No one said that we should not help each other however we should not loose focus of why we were created by Allah SWT. We help each other for Allahs sake. A muslim would not cease to help you out if you are a non-muslim however additional a muslim will also try ot help you out in faith besides worldy matters.

@Seminole

I'm not talking about financial assitance, but any help that a person needs. That could include spiritual guidance, food, shelter, a kind word, someone to talk to, a job, whatever.

As you mentioned spiritual guidance, is that any different from what I had said only that its not the same thing you believe in. Are you making an argument for the sake of an argument after stating this.

@Seminole

You say you can do little to help humanity, but live your life as God has ordained and you would have achieved our purpose. I say they are one in the same. Helping your fellow man is more important than how many times you bow to Mecca on any given day.

Again you have got it wrong. Helping humanity should not allow you to neglect your duty to Allah. You can be of any faith and have not done much in your life on humanitarian grounds, but if you are a muslim in that same boat how does that make you bad. Being a muslim you are working towards making your hereafter better along with your worldly persuits as long as they are not in violation of Allahs commandments. There is no coherence in your arguments. If you have any understanding of Islam then you should be aware of the concepts of Huqooq ul Ibad and Huqooq ul Allah meaning rights of humans upon and rights of Allah upon you. So rest assured being a muslim does not mean you start neglecting humanity but you are actually trying to save them from the worst trial, which is the hellfire besides other things which are good for them. Again if you have read history you would know that during the dark ages of Europe it was muslims who contributed most to the worldly sciences and prosperity for humanity, so your argument is simply null and void about us not having any sense about helping humanity. The difference again is that we do not neglect our duties to Allah because we have set out to help humanity.

Your perception seems to be that helping humanity in itself is a religion from Allah whereas a muslims is that helping humanity is part of the religion of Allah not all of it. As you do for humanity you must do for yourself as well. Some muslims do a lot of both, some do only for themselves and some do little for themselves and a lot for others. However being on the right belief is the key to the next world.

[USResident]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

Are we still in shock here? I have cleared the perception here it is upto you to accept it or behave yet more arrogant and deny it.

[Seminole]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

You haven't cleared anything except that you are able to type mulitple paragraphs to say exactly the same thing over and over. There ireally isn't as much depth to your posts as you think there is. I get it. You are preparing for the afterlife. That is more important to you then what is going on here in this world.

I never said that a person of any faith would have to neglect their religious duties in order to perform charitable and humanitarian work. If it did, it would not be fulfulling the purpose of religion in my opinion, which is to better yourself and your fellow man.

[USResident]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

@Seminole

You haven't cleared anything except that you are able to type mulitple paragraphs to say exactly the same thing over and over. There ireally isn't as much depth to your posts as you think there is. I get it. You are preparing for the afterlife. That is more important to you then what is going on here in this world.

I never said that a person of any faith would have to neglect their religious duties in order to perform charitable and humanitarian work. If it did, it would not be fulfulling the purpose of religion in my opinion, which is to better yourself and your fellow man.

Then where is it that you conflict with me?

[teaser]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

@Seminole

You haven’t cleared anything except that you are able to type mulitple paragraphs to say exactly the same thing over and over. There ireally isn’t as much depth to your posts as you think there is. I get it. You are preparing for the afterlife. That is more important to you then what is going on here in this world.

I never said that a person of any faith would have to neglect their religious duties in order to perform charitable and humanitarian work. If it did, it would not be fulfulling the purpose of religion in my opinion, which is to better yourself and your fellow man.

I see someone don’t even have words to reply and is so frustrated the he/she is unable to even make sense.

[Seminole]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

Then I suggest you attend some comprehension and developmental thought classes with USResident. Maybe they have group rates.

[USResident]

Re: South Korean Christians ordered out of Afghanistan

@Seminole

Then I suggest you attend some comprehension and developmental thought classes with USResident. Maybe they have group rates.

Its been a pleasure to have this discussion with you. See you in class.