Something that always bothers me..

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Just to support my words above.

Here is the endless comedy by MGA…

The False Prophecies of a False Prophet

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani’s False Predictions

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, the founder of Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat), wrote in his books:

“To Judge my truthfulness or lies, there is no better test than my prophecies.”
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 288)
“Let it be known to unbelieving persons that my truthfulness or falsehood will be judged by my prophecies. There is no other touchstone for it.”
(Pamphlet, 10th July 1888; Aina-e-Kamalat-i-Islam, P. 288)
“I do not speak of my volition. Indeed, that is nothing but revelation which is revealed.”
(Tabligh-e-Risalat, Vol. 5, P. 58)
Torah and Quran have designated Prophecies as the only big proof of Prophethood."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 12, P. 111)
“It is not possible that the prophecies of Prophets are delayed.”
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 5)
“To turn out a liar in his own prophecy is biggest disgrace of disgraces.”
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 15, P. 382)
Allow us to examine a few of the better known prophecies of the person who called himself a Prophet, Mehdi, and the Promised Messiah. According to Mirza Ghulam himself, even if only one prophecy has not come to pass, we should view him a liar and an impostor. Let’s count his most famous prophecies which did not come to pass:

Prophecies and Mubahala Concerning Mr. Abdullah Khan Atham
Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was badly humiliated by Mr. A.K. Atham, a Christian, in a debate. Mirza Ghulam’s repeated prophecies regarding a miserable death for Mr. Atham did not come to pass.

Prophecy concerning Multiple Marriages and many Children
“Indeed God has given me the good news that I shall have numerous children from blessed women, whom I shall marry after this revelation.”
(Tabligh-i-Risalat, Vol. 5, P. 58)

“In February 1886, I made a declaration after receiving revelation from God that He gave me good news of marriages after this declaration and soon I shall marry women of good omen and virtue and to me will be born children from them.”
(Tabligh-i-Risalat, Vol. 1, P. 89)

Mirza Ghulam made this statement when he was 46 years old. The fact is that he did not marry anyone after this prophecy.

Prophecies Regarding Marriage to Mohammadi Begum
Mirza Ghulam’s repeated assertions that his marriage to Mohammadi Begum was ordained by God never came to pass. Additionally, none of the individuals he had threatened with death from God died as he had predicted.

Prophecies Regarding the birth of Sons to his wife
Mirza Ghulam made multiple prophecies regarding birth of sons to his wife. They all failed.

Prophecy about Marriage to a Virgin and a Widow
Mirza Ghulam has written:

“It is God’s intention that He will bring two ladies in my wedlock. One will be virgin and the other widow. Therefore, this inspiration that is related to Bikr (virgin), it has been fulfilled and, presently by the grace of God, I have four sons from this wife. I am still waiting for the fulfillment of the inspiration regarding widow.”
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 15, P. 201)

Mirza Ghulam never married a widow.

Prophecies Regarding “A Spark of Light of Allah”
Mirza Ghulam’s claim that a new born boy would grow up to become the savior of the humanity failed, when the young boy died of an illness.

Prophecies Concerning the Plague and Qadian
Mirza Ghulam feared Cholera very much and declared it to be one of his signs. He predicted that the plague that became rampant in Punjab will not enter Qadian, the dwelling place of God’s prophet (himself)! However, not only did the plague spread to Qadian, it also took the life of several people in Mirza Ghulam’s own house.

Prophecies Concerning Birth of a Son to a Follower
Mirza Ghulam’s prophecies concerning the birth of a son to one of his followers, Manzoor Muhammad, did not materialize.

Prophecies and Mubahala Concerning Dr. Abdul Hakim
Mirza Ghulam Qadiani engaged in a discussion with a Muslim Doctor by the name of Abdul Hakim. During this discussion, the Doctor called Mirza a Liar and challenged him to a debate. Instead of accepting the debate, Mirza Ghulam prophecised a miserable death for Dr. Hakim. These predictions also failed and proved to be the inventions of a lost soul and a pretender.

Prophecy Concerning Long Life
Mirza Ghulam declared to have received wahi (revelation) concerning his lifespan:

“Enemies wish for my death and prophecise about it. God has, however, given me the good news that I shall live for eighty (80) years or more.”
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 239; Mawahib-ur-Rahman, P. 21)

Mirza Ghulam Qadiani died when he was sixty eight (68) years old.

Prophecy Concerning his Death in a Holy City
Mirza Ghulam had stated:

“I will die either in Mekkah or Medina.”
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 2, P. 105; Tadhkira, P. 591)

Mirza Ghulam did not ever see Mekkah or Medina. He died in the city of Lahor, Pakistan; his body was moved and burried in Qadian.

Source

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** Death of a liar **

Bashir Ahmad, the son of Mirza Ghulam, wrote in his biography:

“My mother informed me that ‘the first attack of looseness of bowels upon the Promised Messiah occurred when he was at his dining room table. Later, I started pressing his legs and he lay in comfort and slept and soon I too slept. After a short while, he again felt the call of nature and he used the bathroom a couple of times without awakening me, After this he felt very weak; he shook me up and laid down on my bed. I recommenced pressing. In a few minutes he told me to go to bed but I refused and continued to press. Once again he had an urge and, being too weak to go to the lavatory, I made arrangement for him close to the bed. He sat down and relieved himself. Next, he laid himself back on my bed and I started pressing again. His weakness grew intense; he had another motion, accompanied this time by vomiting. This paralyzed him so much that when trying to lay back on the bed, he fell on his back and hit his head on the bed post. His condition alarmed me…’.”
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 1, P. 11-12; Sirat-ul-Mehdi, P.109)
Mirza Ghulam’s father in law, Mir Nasir Nawab, recorded in his autobiography:

“The night his holiness fell ill, I was sleeping in my room. When his illness grew severe, they woke me up. I went over to his holiness and found him in great pain. He addressed me saying: ‘I have been stricken with cholera.’ After this, he did not utter a single intelligible and coherent word till he died on Monday, after ten O’clock in the morning.”
(Hayat-i-Nasir, P. 14)
Mirza Ghulam used to say that cholera or plague is the sign of Allah(SWT)'s wrath on mankind for their wrong doing! It is fitting that his last words were the admission that he had been stricken with the disease he was so fearful of. The witnesses present at his bed side recorded:

“Huzoor (Mirza Ghulam) could not talk two hours before death. Dr. Mirza Yaqoob Baig and Dr. Syed Mohammad Hussei Shah were the attending physicians. Huzoor asked for paper and wrote on it: ‘I have too much dryness. I can’t talk.’ and some other words which could not be read.”
(Al-Fazl, Vol. 25, No. 274, November 24, 1937)
“As his condition became precarious, we stayed by him and continued treatment, but his pulse stopped by 10:15 A.M., on the 26th May, 1908 he breathed his last.”
(Al-Hakam, Mary 28, 1908)

Source

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I totally agree with the Pakistani Abroad. The declaration of Ahmedis as non-Muslims was more a politically motivated action. If you look at what Imam Khomeni says than even shias are non-Muslims. Even Sunnis have some groups which say things which have nothing to do wth Quran and Hadith.

Its wrong to declare people non-Muslims when they call themselves Muslims. Mistakes can be committed by anybody but I do not think anybody has the right to declare anybody else non-Muslim.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
Mr. Changez_like

But as per many Ahadith already quoted in this discussion before, when Jesus would come at the end of days, He would be a prophet of God.
[/QUOTE]

which one would that be?
also, I asked for Quranic verse that talked about MGA but didn't get any response!?!?

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I am surprised this discussion is still going in circles I think its time both sides time out. PA made a valid point one doesn't exit the fold of Islam for interpreting or believing in different hadiths.. It seems like all of us have our own interpretations.

The problem with such behavior is that with such narrow minded approach the majority will first turn on Kafirs e.g. hindus, sikhs etc once they are done with them it will be Ahmedis then Christians until there is one dominant group left. Then what? Then they will start finding faults within their own group and fight among themselves... Its like a lose torpedo seeking target.

I think regardless if they are kafirs or not we should not call them kafirs coz we do not have the right to do so.

Reminds me long time ago in Pak when I was in school our teacher told us a little story. If such an incident did occur guppies please let me know and add your comments.

A man in Mecca killed someone and was brought in front of our prophet, our prophet asked him the motive he said that the reason he killed him was because he accepted Islam out of fear but in his heart he was still a kafir and our prophet said did you took a peek in his heart.. In urdu it was “tum ney kia oos ka dil cheer ker deikh lyea tha” these words still echo in my head.

That’s why when my Ahmedi friend said he believes in prophet Mohammed (SAW) as the last prophet and no other prophet as the last prophet that was enough for me.

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Abdali....didn't you see my post ????

The mardood MGA claimed himself as Prophet, Massiah even better than Jesus and insulted him on several occassion. How many scholars or people you need to claim that zindeeq a Kafir ?????? Does it have to be a government or a panel of scholars or whatnot to declair him kafir and the followers of him as non-believers??? itni simple baat kyon nahi samjh arahi ke jo fundamentals of Islam se hut jaaye woh musalman nahi hai.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
Abdali....didn't you see my post ????

The mardood MGA claimed himself as Prophet, Massiah even better than Jesus and insulted him on several occassion. How many scholars or people you need to claim that zindeeq a Kafir ?????? Does it have to be a government or a panel of scholars or whatnot to declair him kafir and the followers of him as non-believers??? itni simple baat kyon nahi samjh arahi ke jo fundamentals of Islam se hut jaaye woh musalman nahi hai.
[/QUOTE]

Smooth I understand 100 percent where you comming from I am not desputing that. I am taking this on case by case bases, the question here is not what MA claims as far as I am concerned he can claim to be God who cares. But what an individual Ahmedi says, when an Ahmedi comes and tells me that he belives in our prophet as the only and only last prophet and no other prophet he may be lying to me but I can't be the judge of that allah is. The reason I am saying this is because my friend was very conviencing... And not only you my other friends also told me that he was just lying again that is not for me to judge! sorry thats how I see it and please let me know if there is anything wrong with my logic.

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Mr. Changez_like

As you have already wrote in one of your previous mail that you believe in the second coming of christ! and if somebody prove that Jesus son of Mary is dead from Quran, then you also have to believe that there would somebody else that would come who would be like Jesus son of mary not in literal sense but in spiritual sense.

Do we agree on that?

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Mr. Marood_guy! Oh! I am sorry Mr. Smooth_guy

There are some people in this forum who know how to wage in a discussion but you are not one of them.

We don't approval of you, or Ulemas or worldly governments for our faith to be sanctioned. We have Allah with us! and Inshallah victory of Ahmadiyyat would be shown to this world.

For people like you, there are some verses in Holy Quran, please read Surah AL-baqarah:

2: 7. Those who have disbelieved - it being alike to them whether thou warn them or warn them not - they will not believe.

2: 8. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and their ears, and over their eyes is a covering; and for them is a grievous chastisement.

2: 9. And of the people there are some who say, `We believe in Allah, and the Last Day;' while they are not believers at all.

2: 10. They would deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive none but themselves; only they perceive it not.

2: 11. In their hearts was a disease, so Allah has increased their disease, and for them is a grievous punishment because they lied.

2: 12. And when it is said to them, Create not disorder in the earth,' they sayWe are only promoters of peace.'

2: 13. Beware ! it is surely they who create disorder, but they do not perceive it.

2: 14. And when it is said to them, Believe as other people have believed,' they say,Shall we believe as the fools have believed ?' Remember ! it is surely they that are the fools, but they do not know.

2: 15. And when they meet those who believe, they say, We believe;' but when they are alone with their ring-leaders they say,We were only mocking.'

2: 16. Allah will punish their mockery and will let them continue in their transgression, wandering blindly.

2: 17. These are they who have bartered away guidance for error, but their traffic has brought them no gain, nor are they rightly guided.

2: 18. Their case is like the case of a person who kindled a fire, and when it lighted up all around him, Allah took away their light and left them in thick darkness, they see not.

2: 19. They are deaf, dumb and blind; so they will not return.

2: 20. Or, it is like a heavy rain from the clouds, wherein is thick darkness and thunder and lightning; they put their fingers into their ears because of the thunder claps for fear of death, and Allah encompasses the disbelievers.

2: 21. The lightning might well nigh snatch away their sight; whenever it shines upon them, they walk therein; and when it becomes dark to them, they stand still. And if Allah had so willed HE could take away their hearing and their sight; surely Allah has the power to do all that HE wills.

May Allah give everybody hidayat!

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Well the confusion now is that when a sunni says that a prophet will come to enforce the Muhammadi (saw) law, he is a staunch muslim. Whereas when an ahmadi says that the Prophet has arrived he becomes a Kafir, because sunni is waiting for a Prophet from the skies.

Jews are still Jews, they still await their Massiah from the skies..

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Mr fitaymoonh oops fateh.....I posted MGA's own words up there...even a christian or a hindu can tell that this guy was no where near to prophethood or anything like that and that he was not a muslim.

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Mr smoothguy,

These allegations, the statements that you have taken out of context are replied at numerous places.. and i can provide you with necessary references if you like.. but as it has been repeated very often that this is not the purpose of this thread.. especailly not to menifest your inner filth.. so can you pack it in.. and start a new thread.. You will be replied with ample proofs..

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Mods..

Please do not allow any mudslinging in this thread.. the purpose was only to discuss in a mature manner. Those who cannot follow should have their posts stricken from this thread.

Thanks

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Very much the point is... Jesu' was holy. He was holy to christians and muslims.

Jesu' IMOH taught the world to ponder God.

God is who one prays to.

One should always think about God.