Soldiers speak up!

[LockJaw]

Its not my fault if you are so ignorant on these topics. The guy made headlines after an exclusive interview on Merey Mutabiq. Also, Hameed Gul's assertion about phosp being used made headlines too. Maybe you were listening to anti-indian war songs then?

If he made headlines, thats great. Just shows that these concerns provoke significant comment and discussion. Now you just have one little baby step to go in order to make this relevant to Lal Masjid. Show me some headlines emerging from statements from soldiers that the weapons were planted and the Lal Masjid only had ghulails.

[quote]

Thats because your comprehension issues are rusted yet again. I never said they had ghulails. They had guns in there, and guns kill people too. What I said was all that fancy state of the art that we saw neatly decorated and planted in there, that wasnt needed to kill a few people, you can use ordinary ak47s for that too. Point is simple, no need to prove how these weaker forces our armies are fighting are better equipped than us, it backfires and will diminish the non-existent support our forces already have on such matters.
[/quote]

Ah so they did have guns. So now lets be specific. You objected to the neatly laid out (unused) ammo. Do you feel that if they had been using AK47s the ammo wouldnt be so neat? Or it would all be used up? Whats the beef?

[Spock]

Re: Soldiers speak up!

Alright, they had nukkular weapons inside of Lal Masjid too! Ab Khush?

[Khehkeshan]

Alright, they had nukkular weapons inside of Lal Masjid too! Ab Khush?

So you have no argument.

[Spock]

@LockJaw

If he made headlines, thats great. Just shows that these concerns provoke significant comment and discussion. Now you just have one little baby step to go in order to make this relevant to Lal Masjid. Show me some headlines emerging from statements from soldiers that the weapons were planted and the Lal Masjid only had ghulails.

Headlines were made by the media, but were ignored by mushtards, or ‘overlooked’ when they compiling their war songs to prepare for the civil war to come As for the ghulail part, maybe Ill show you headlines once you prove where I said the people inside of lal masjid were holding ghulails. When you were cheering the deaths of women and children inside, you chose to ignore the rest of the country’s sentiments, and so dont be so shocked when you find out how everyone hates how the Govt handled that absurd crackdown.
Also, do you expect serving soldiers to come out and admit they followed wrong orders, do you even know about the oath that they take? How many Pakistani soldiers in East Pakistan admitted to the rape, plunder that is associated to them? Maybe you shoudl wait till some of these soldiers retire.

Ah so they did have guns. So now lets be specific. You objected to the neatly laid out (unused) ammo. Do you feel that if they had been using AK47s the ammo wouldnt be so neat? Or it would all be used up? Whats the beef?

My beef is when some morons look at that sophisticated armament that the Govt showed, and claimed they were up against something HUGE, and get turned on, though they are rather less in numbers. Again, claiming the lal masjiders or taliban are better equipped to fight the Pakistan Army which is what the 6th biggest or best army in the world is a JOKE.

[Spock]

So you have no argument.

What, I just admitted the lal masjidders were extremely dangerous nukkular milituunts. If bhai were the president, he'd give me sitara-e-jurrat for making such a statement.

[Khehkeshan]

What, I just admitted the lal masjidders were extremely dangerous nukkular milituunts. If bhai were the president, he'd give me sitara-e-jurrat for making such a statement.

Cute with the sarcasm, but you still have no argument.

[LockJaw]

@Spock

Headlines were made by the media, but were ignored by mushtards, or ‘overlooked’ when they compiling their war songs to prepare for the civil war to come

Fine, show me the headlines made by soldiers saying they witnessed weapons being planted, even those ignored by the mushtards.

As for the ghulail part, maybe Ill show you headlines once you prove where I said the people inside of lal masjid were holding ghulails.

No, maybe you wont. No infact you really wont. Infact you CANT. Such a fragile conspiracy we weave.

When you were cheering the deaths of women and children inside, you chose to ignore the rest of the country’s sentiments, and so dont be so shocked when you find out how everyone hates how the Govt handled that absurd crackdown.

a) You arent everyone
b) Nobody is shocked at anything you say
c) Show me where I cheered over the deaths of women and children

Also, do you expect serving soldiers to come out and admit they followed wrong orders, do you even know about the oath that they take? How many Pakistani soldiers in East Pakistan admitted to the rape, plunder that is associated to them? Maybe you shoudl wait till some of these soldiers retire.

So all those soldiers are participating in a cover-up eh? What motivates them to do so, I can understand where there is rape and war crimes etc, but what motivates them to keep quiet SPECIFICALLY on the arms and ammo displayed by the govt. Thats the only thing Im talking about.

My beef is when some morons look at that sophisticated armament that the Govt showed, and claimed they were up against something HUGE, and get turned on, though they are rather less in numbers.

Be specific. You first talked about neatly arranged unused ammo as being the objectionable thing. Clearly ak47s will result in some unused ammo which can be neatly arranged if so desired. What ‘sophisticated’ weapon do you think couldnt possibly have been present there?

Again, claiming the lal masjiders or taliban are better equipped to fight the Pakistan Army which is what the 6th biggest or best army in the world is a JOKE.

Arguable. They definitely dont have tanks air support etc. They might have decent sniper rifles, light ammo etc esp given the recent reports on US ammunition being found from Taleban.

[Spock]

@LockJaw

Fine, show me the headlines made by soldiers saying they witnessed weapons being planted, even those ignored by the mushtards.

Were you sleeping when that issue was discussed, even here on GS? Go dig up the threads.

No, maybe you wont. No infact you really wont. Infact you CANT. Such a fragile conspiracy we weave.

Just like how you cant prove where I said the Lal Masjiders were holding ghulails. I mean you dont have to lie or make up stuff to prove your point ravage

a) You arent everyone
b) Nobody is shocked at anything you say
c) Show me where I cheered over the deaths of women and children

Oh yeah, the whole country was behind the lal masjid operation! haha maybe shiekh rashid didnt even get 5000 votes in pindi after being invincible because he became ganja over time.

So all those soldiers are participating in a cover-up eh? What motivates them to do so, I can understand where there is rape and war crimes etc, but what motivates them to keep quiet SPECIFICALLY on the arms and ammo displayed by the govt. Thats the only thing Im talking about.

how many soldiers does it take to plant ammunition. poori army nahee ayi thi yeh karney. Also, remember the famous general, who was demoted (After being part of several under cover operations by mush himself), and later his dead body was found? Things arent as rosy as they seem ravage.

Be specific. You first talked about neatly arranged unused ammo as being the objectionable thing. Clearly ak47s will result in some unused ammo which can be neatly arranged if so desired. What ‘sophisticated’ weapon do you think couldnt possibly have been present there?

You know if they planted an atum bum over there, you’d fall for that too. p.s. remember burqa aziz was taken in custody and his burqa was taken off. Then he magically appeared on PTV in a different place with the burqa on, along with the viel infront of his face. This just shows how the Govt was desperate to somehow prove the legitmacy of this operation, and they failed miserably.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Soldiers speak up!

The type of weapons recovered from Lal masjid included RPG and Chinese variant RPG-7 rockets, Anti-tank and anti-personnel landmines, RPD, RPK and RPK-74 light machine guns, Dragunov sniper rifles, SKS rifles, AK-47s, pistols, and night vision equipment.

Many newspaper articles over thepast year have pointed out that in contrast, the Frontier Corps, who were until recently the troops carrying out the bulk of anti militant operations, were underarmed, including many with WW2-era bolt-action .303 calibre rifles.

Compared to the Frontier Corps, it is fair to say that the Taliban were equally or better armed.

However, that logic does not apply to the regular army soldiers who are being used now.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

how many soldiers does it take to plant ammunition..

Yes, clearly the lack of security force causalties proves that there was no ammunition at all in the lal Masjid.

[Spock]

The type of weapons recovered from Lal masjid included RPG and Chinese variant RPG-7 rockets, Anti-tank and anti-personnel landmines, RPD, RPK and RPK-74 light machine guns, Dragunov sniper rifles, SKS rifles, AK-47s, pistols, and night vision equipment.

Thats cooked...

[quote]

Many newspaper articles over thepast year have pointed out that in contrast, the Frontier Corps, who were until recently the troops carrying out the bulk of anti militant operations, were underarmed, including many with WW2-era bolt-action .303 calibre rifles.

Compared to the Frontier Corps, it is fair to say that the Taliban were equally or better armed.

However, that logic does not apply to the regular army soldiers who are being used now.
[/quote]
That I agree with.

[Spock]

Yes, clearly the lack of security force causalties proves that there was no ammunition at all in the lal Masjid.

10-15 AK47s can result in their casualties too, you dont need stock piles of draganovs and night vision goggles and whatever it is that you stated.

[wine]

@Spock

10-15 AK47s can result in their casualties too, you dont need stock piles of draganovs and night vision goggles and whatever it is that you stated.

10-15 ak 47 killed dozen SSGs and 40+ wounded. yes this logic can only come from Spocky :k: …

[%between%]("http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/322142-how-can-we-put-pressure-punjab-sindh-gov.html#post6532376")

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

10-15 AK47s can result in their casualties too, you dont need stock piles of draganovs and night vision goggles and whatever it is that you stated.

So your entire argument is that militants in a mosque would only have access to AK-47s and no other equipment?

[Spock]

@wine

10-15 ak 47 killed dozen SSGs and 40+ wounded. yes this logic can only come from Spocky :k: …

You do realize you are making a fool out of yourself yet again, the guy in that picture stepping out of the hummer limo is a well known PPP minister, no matter where in NY he is.

[Spock]

So your entire argument is that militants in a mosque would only have access to AK-47s and no other equipment?

My argument is this. Some dude came out here and claims how the talibobs are better armed than the entire pakistan army. Now such claims were made in the lal masjid attack too, i just drew a relation b/w the two statements.

[LockJaw]

@Spock

Were you sleeping when that issue was discussed, even here on GS? Go dig up the threads.

Yar dont be obtuse, I mean show me the headlines about any soldier saying the weapons were planted.

Just like how you cant prove where I said the Lal Masjiders were holding ghulails.

Not just like. One is a serious attempt at an argument (there was a cover up you wont believe witnesses like you didnt believe alvi etc). Another is hopefully a clear ridiculing of your bachkana reply to Mad Scientist.

If the sarcasm wasnt clear enough let me assure you that I dont think you believe they really killed the soldiers with ghulails.

I do think you have absolutely NO basis for most of your flimsy conspiracy theories including this one.

Oh yeah, the whole country was behind the lal masjid operation! haha maybe shiekh rashid didnt even get 5000 votes in pindi after being invincible because he became ganja over time.

If elections are your barometer, Benazir backed the operation and her party won the elections

how many soldiers does it take to plant ammunition. poori army nahee ayi thi yeh karney.

Yar, ‘poori army’ atleast witnessed the resistance being offered, hears the kind of ammunition being used, and is in a MUCH better position to judge whether there is something shady going on than you, with all due respect, are.

Also, remember the famous general, who was demoted (After being part of several under cover operations by mush himself), and later his dead body was found? Things arent as rosy as they seem ravage.

relevance? Give me something concrete as basis.

You know if they planted an atum bum over there, you’d fall for that too.

My question was, which weapons do you object to, and on what basis. Please answer that.

p.s. remember burqa aziz was taken in custody and his burqa was taken off. Then he magically appeared on PTV in a different place with the burqa on, along with the viel infront of his face. This just shows how the Govt was desperate to somehow prove the legitmacy of this operation, and they failed miserably.

Sure. PR. Doesnt mean he didnt come out in a burqa does it

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

My argument is this. Some dude came out here and claims how the talibobs are better armed than the entire pakistan army. Now such claims were made in the lal masjid attack too, i just drew a relation b/w the two statements.

No, you seemed to be arguing that it is completely impossible that any weapons more sophisticate than AK-47s could possibly have been inside the Lal Masjid. Clarify if that is true or not.

[Spock]

@LockJaw

Yar dont be obtuse, I mean show me the headlines about any soldier saying the weapons were planted.

i) Where did I say specifically soldiers planted it

ii) If they did, what makes you think they will come and confess about it. Do you think assasins who are paid to kill people come out and confess they kill ppl the next day after getting paid

iii) The entire army didnt carry it out, such under cover operations are carried out by a few people.

Not just like. One is a serious attempt at an argument (there was a cover up you wont believe witnesses like you didnt believe alvi etc). Another is hopefully a clear ridiculing of your bachkana reply to Mad Scientist.

No need to lose your temper chanda.

If the sarcasm wasnt clear enough let me assure you that I dont think you believe they really killed the soldiers with ghulails.

Mad seems to think that you need heavy and sophisticated armament to kill soldiers, I was reminding him he doesnt. ab thora hosla rakho.

I do think you have absolutely NO basis for most of your flimsy conspiracy theories including this one.

So, i think you are prejudiced too.

If elections are your barometer, Benazir backed the operation and her party won the elections

Yeah sure, you are laughable yar, if you make claims like lal masjid being popular. atleast be realistic./

Yar, ‘poori army’ atleast witnessed the resistance being offered, hears the kind of ammunition being used, and is in a MUCH better position to judge whether there is something shady going on than you, with all due respect, are.

prove it

relevance? Give me something concrete as basis.

i dont sit around in lalokhet, i lived close to lal masjid and i know what went on in there, and how all of a sudden one day it became this huge depot of armament.

Sure. PR. Doesnt mean he didnt come out in a burqa does it

idiotic PR that only khotaz would drool over. No wonder they never played it again after the harsh criticism

[LockJaw]

i) Where did I say specifically soldiers planted it

I never said you did :)

[quote]

ii) If they did, what makes you think they will come and confess about it. Do you think assasins who are paid to kill people come out and confess they kill ppl the next day after getting paid

[/quote]

I think its impossible to control a conspiracy of this magnitude with this many witnesses. As you say, not all soldiers would have been involved in the planting, and atleast some of them can be assumed to be honest.

[quote]

iii) The entire army didnt carry it out, such under cover operations are carried out by a few people.

[/quote]

All the more reason the remaining who were very close proximity to the operation would speak about the truth :)

[quote]

Mad seems to think that you need heavy and sophisticated armament to kill soldiers, I was reminding him he doesnt. ab thora hosla rakho.

[/quote]

It probably needs more than a few ghulails :) esp if they're SSG soldiers wearing sophisticated armour. But you're the expert here.

[quote]

Yeah sure, you are laughable yar, if you make claims like lal masjid being popular. atleast be realistic./

[/quote]

I didnt make any statement about its popularity. Merely that YOU arent 'everyone', nor are YOUR attitudes necessarily representative of the pakistani people.

[quote]

prove it

[/quote]

Prove that soldiers surrounding the mosque are better equipped to know the nature of arms being used than you?

[quote]

i dont sit around in lalokhet, i lived close to lal masjid and i know what went on in there, and how all of a sudden one day it became this huge depot of armament.

[/quote]

lived.

[quote]

idiotic PR that only khotaz would drool over. No wonder they never played it again after the harsh criticism
[/quote]

For the third time. Do you have anything concrete about specifically which arms you think were planted, and which were used?