To Punjabi Kuri:
Does it matter that I am an Ahmadi Muslim by birth or by choice! I have read the books of the Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian and considered him to be the true follower of the Holy Prophet and the promised messiah.
What if I am going to ask you a question about you being a muslim by birth or by choice!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
To Punjabi Kuri:
..considered him to be the true follower of the Holy Prophet and the promised messiah.
[/QUOTE]
. so what about his prophethood? do u consider hin to be a prophet of God.. and do u consider Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as last messenger on earth? I dont have any problem if some one considers someone as promised messiah as many claim around the world.. reforming muslims or guiding them is good work if done according to Quran and Sunnah..but believing there is still revelation and guidence after Quran is unimaginable to me..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
To Punjabi Kuri:
Does it matter that I am an Ahmadi Muslim by birth or by choice! I have read the books of the Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian and considered him to be the true follower of the Holy Prophet and the promised messiah.
What if I am going to ask you a question about you being a muslim by birth or by choice!
[/QUOTE]
im was a muslim by birth...but now by choice.i just cant see how you can believe he was the messiah.
To Mr Degas:
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian didn't bring any new teachings. He based everything on Holy Quran and the Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him).
Thats what He has to say about Holy Quran:
[QUOTE]
Perfect and holy is the teachings of the Holy Quran which nourishes every branch of the human tree. The Holy Quran does not stress only one side of it. It teaches compassion and forgiveness when forgiveness is nearer wisdom. It prescribes punishment for the wrong-doer but such as is appropriate to the moment and the occasion.
(Barahin-i-Ahmadiyya II, pg. 91-92)
[/QUOTE]
And about Holy Prophet (peace be upon him):
[QUOTE]
It would not have been possible for me to have attained this grace if I had not followed the footsteps of my lord and master, the pride of all the prophets, the best of mankind, Muhammad, the chosen one, peace and blessings of Allah be on him. Whatever I have achieved, I have achieved by following him, and I know from verified reliable experience that no man can reach God and obtain a deeper understanding of His ways without following that Prophet, may peace and blessings of Allah be on him.
Now, let me also make it known that the very first thing you are rewarded with, after having completely submitted yourself to the instructions and teachings of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, is that you are granted a new heart which is always rightly inclined, that is to say, a heart which has turned cold upon the love of this material world, and instead it begins to yearn for an everlasting heavenly pleasure. Having achieved this desire, this heart is now fit to receive that perfect and purest love--the love of God. Because of your complete obedience to him, all these blessings are bequeathed to you as his spiritual heritage.
(Roohani Khaza'in, Vol. 22: Haqeeqatul Wahi, pp. 64-65)
[/QUOTE]
To Punjabi Kuri:
Christians could say the same thing about you that how come you can be a Muslim?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian didn't bring any new teachings.
[/QUOTE]
If he didnt so what exactly he did? From what I have read he got revelation from Allah for years and claimed millions of miracles? compared himself with prophets of God! I just want to know what he told us that we didnt knew from Quran and Sunnah.. anything new or unique? which can better our lives as muslims ..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
. so what about his prophethood? do u consider hin to be a prophet of God.. and do u consider Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as last messenger on earth? I dont have any problem if some one considers someone as promised messiah as many claim around the world.. reforming muslims or guiding them is good work if done according to Quran and Sunnah..but believing there is still revelation and guidence after Quran is unimaginable to me..
[/QUOTE]
imagine this Mr. Degas
(this is a long hadith on second coming of Massiah, i have cut it short for brevity) it answers your question on "revelation" and "khatme nabuwwat".
Sahih Muslim:
Book 041, Number 7015:
An-Nawwas b. Sam'an reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made a mention of the Dajjal one day in the morning.....................................................
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Then a people whom Allah had protected would come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he would wipe their faces and would inform them of their ranks in Paradise and it would be under such conditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from amongst My servants such people against whom none would be able to fight; you take these people safely to Tur, and then Allah would send Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope. The first of them would pass the lake of Tibering and drink out of it. And when the last of them would pass, he would say: There was once water there. Jesus and his companions .............
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Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinirs and *Allah's Apostle, Jesus *, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. *Allah's Apostle, Jesus *, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. *Allah's Apostle, Jesus *, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who would send birds whose necks would be like those of bactrin camels and they would carry them and throw them where God would will............................
ok may be we will wait for that day.. but I asked about what Mirza did that can inspire us today! what he taught that is separate from the knowledge we have from Quran and Sunnah.. if hes teaching from these 2 sources then hesa reformer not messenger with revelation.. if he got revelation then what that new message is?
[quote]
Noone can prove that i have been taught a single lesson in "tafseer" of Quran or Hadith from anyone., Or i was a student of some "mufassir" or "muhaddith". So, this is the same "mahdiuviat" which i have been blessed with on the same way "(minhaj) of Nabuwate Muhammadiya.
[/quote]
You know alot of people told me that Ahmdies quote wrong references and I did'nt belive them coz I have some friends that are Ahmadi and they are very nice people in character.....but I am watching this with my own eyes....Destino You have added the word "TAFSEER" of Quran by your self I have read the same thing...and it says "QURAN AOR HADITH MAIN KISI KA SHAGIRDH NAHEEN HOGA. SO MAIN HALFAN KEH SAKTA HON....KOI SABIT NAHEEN KARSAKTA KAI MAIN NAI KISI INSAN SAY QURAN YA HADITH YA TAFSEER KA AIK SABAQ BHI PARHA HO."
The senetce has the word YA= OR meaning that he is saying that he has not studied Quran from any human being.
On the other hand he says....
*
When I was 6-7 yrears old, a persian teacher was employed for me who taught me Holy Quran ....and his name was Fazal Ilahi." (Roohani Khazain vol 13 p.180)
*
** I am truly shocked that Destino would do something like this, Just to make him self feel right!! This is ABSOLUTELY INSANE.**
First of all he already deined being Promised Massiah.
"This humble self has simply claimed to be a Maseel Maseeh, which foolish people have thought to be Promised Messiah..." (Roohani Khazain vol.3 p.192)
So how would you claim that he was promsed Massiah. (which is not Jesus, so leave Jesus out of this discussion).
Also elaborate on the signs of Mehdi with Mirza. How many of them were there. What goal has he achieved in his life? What good did he do to Ummah being Promissed Massiah, if he was him. What was the purpose of Allah of sending him and what HE has achieved?
*This is religion, do realize the enormous consequences of making deliberate omissions and additions. You are labelling us of copying and pasting and look whats goin on......Its a good thing I cross checked it coz I had read it before and I knew there was something different about it...as Insha Ji would say "99,99% sure something is missing...due to my experience with Non-Ahmadi websites".
*
Jazzakallah brother Perplexing. I couldn’t download over 1GB of PDF file at work, so I decided to go home and download it there and get back to them. Because I had the same doubt that this guy is hiding something from me and I wanted to get back to him with solid reference and their own translation.
Good one :k:
Noone can prove that i have been taught a single lesson in "tafseer" of Quran or Hadith from anyone., Or i was a student of some "mufassir" or "muhaddith". So, this is the same "mahdiuviat" which i have been blessed with on the same way "(minhaj) of Nabuwate Muhammadiya.
You know alot of people told me that Ahmdies quote wrong references and I did'nt belive them coz I have some friends that are Ahmadi and they are very nice people in character.....but I am watching this with my own eyes....Destino You have added the word "TAFSEER" of Quran by your self I have read the same thing...and it says "QURAN AOR HADITH MAIN KISI KA SHAGIRDH NAHEEN HOGA. SO MAIN HALFAN KEH SAKTA HON....KOI SABIT NAHEEN KARSAKTA KAI MAIN NAI KISI INSAN SAY QURAN YA HADITH YA TAFSEER KA AIK SABAQ BHI PARHA HO."
The senetce has the word YA= OR meaning that he is saying that he has not studied Quran from any human being.
On the other hand he says....
*
When I was 6-7 yrears old, a persian teacher was employed for me who taught me Holy Quran ....and his name was Fazal Ilahi." (Roohani Khazain vol 13 p.180)
*
**
I am truly shocked that Destino would do something like this, Just to make him self feel right!! This is ABSOLUTELY INSANE.**
This makes me sick! When you argue or debate with some....you assume that they will play by the rules of at-least be fearful of Allah since this is a matter of religion. I am wondering how many times have they done this through out this whole forum.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Perplexing: *
You know alot of people told me that Ahmdies quote wrong references and I did'nt belive them coz I have some friends that are Ahmadi and they are very nice people in character.....but I am watching this with my own eyes....Destino You have added the word "TAFSEER" of Quran by your self I have read the same thing...and it says "QURAN AOR HADITH MAIN KISI KA SHAGIRDH NAHEEN HOGA. SO MAIN HALFAN KEH SAKTA HON....KOI SABIT NAHEEN KARSAKTA KAI MAIN NAI KISI INSAN SAY QURAN YA HADITH YA TAFSEER KA AIK SABAQ BHI PARHA HO."
The senetce has the word YA= OR meaning that he is saying that he has not studied Quran from any human being.
** I am truly shocked that Destino would do something like this, Just to make him self feel right!! This is ABSOLUTELY INSANE.**
[/QUOTE]
I challenge you on this one.. just prove me that i have altered any meanings of the original text..
can you quote the whole passage that i translated.. and then we will see who is right and who is not..
Here is my translation again..
[QUOTE]
wa wajadaka zaalan falaa huda (al quran), which means that Our Prophet did not learn anything from others, like other prophets did. Hazrat ISa and Hazrat Musa went to Makatib. Hazrat Isa (as) was taught Torah by a jew teacher. So, in this respect, our Prophet was not taught by any human. God was his Teacher. And God said to him "Iqra" at first, that means "read". No one else said that. So, Prophet took all the guidence from Allah specifically, but other Prophets took their knowledge of religion from others humans. So, the promised one is said to be "Mahdi", that means that he will be guided in the field of religion by Allah himself.He will not be someone's student in Quran and Hadith
[/QUOTE]
and then you put your words in from here on wards.. and include the last sentence from above to make sure it looks as if Promissed Massiah (as) is referring to himself.. but he is referring to the term Mahdi and its implications..
Smooth Guy you can go to this website and they have an online version of the book. www.alfazal.org
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
I challenge you on this one.. just prove me that i have altered any meanings of the original text..
can you quote the whole passage that i translated.. and then we will see who is right and who is not..
Here is my translation again..
and then you put your words in from here on wards.. and include the last sentence from above to make sure it looks as if Promissed Massiah (as) is referring to himself.. but he is referring to the term Mahdi and its implications..
[/QUOTE]
I just did!!!!!!!! What in the world are you talking about. You have said......
Noone can prove that i have been taught a single lesson in "tafseer" of Quran or Hadith from anyone., Or i was a student of some "mufassir" or "muhaddith".
In this sentence You have added the the part "Tafseer OF Quran".
When the original text says "Quran YA Tafseer".
Open your eyes get glasses or something but realize what you did.
Mr. Perplexing,
Can you still explain why irshad org omitted the word Tafsir from the original text??
Can you tell me why you are ignoring the word "mufassir" and "muhaddith" from the text??
Can you tell me if it is possible that a child born in a muslim religious family does not learn to read the Quran when he is 6 or 7 years old???
Can you tell me if learning the persian language (which was the language of muslim authorities) has anything to do with the knowldege of Tafseer??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Perplexing: *
I just did!!!!!!!! What in the world are you talking about. You have said......
Noone can prove that i have been taught a single lesson in "tafseer" of Quran or Hadith from anyone., Or i was a student of some "mufassir" or "muhaddith".
In this sentence You have added the the part "Tafseer OF Quran".
When the original text says "Quran YA Tafseer".
Open your eyes get glasses or something but realize what you did.
[/QUOTE]
As i have said earlier that it is a novice translation and i did mention it before.. But the use of the words "muhaddith" and "mufassir" in the very next sentence make it absolutely clear that promised Massiah (as) is referring to thm when he says "Quran or hadith or tafseer"..
while translating i never revised it, as i knew it is still going to be a rought translation.. and the whole text ,the original one, proves that it was referred to the knowledge of tafseer and not Quran we are taught for the first time..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
Mr. Perplexing,
Can you still explain why irshad org omitted the word Tafsir from the original text??
Can you tell me why you are ignoring the word "mufassir" and "muhaddith" from the text??
Can you tell me if it is possible that a child born in a muslim religious family does not learn to read the Quran when he is 6 or 7 years old???
Can you tell me if learning the persian language (which was the language of muslim authorities) has anything to do with the knowldege of Tafseer??
[/QUOTE]
Mr. Destino irshad.org my ***! I have downloaded these books from www.alislam.org just because of this sole reason that you will accuse me of something like this....Go and download it your self and then talk to me....