Where do we go from there? Do we pick up where we left off?
Will the treasury be continued to be raped by nawaz, benazir and their families like before? Will their people will use and abuse every instrument of the system to their benefit again? What good is democracy to pakistan at the current situation?
It amazes and alarms me that both of them have not answered a single key question on how they will deal with ANY issues in pakistan. ALL you see them talk about is taking power.
How would they deal with religious extremism? Will they deal with is like before? (they ignored it, as long as their interests weren’t messed with they were to do whatever they want. For example harassing ahmedis, shias, sufis, sufi shrines, etc)
What will they do with about the poverty levels?
Where is Pakistan’s IT infrastructure going to go?
If they truly want to lead pakistan, then why don’t they address concern about political issues. Are they trying to CON pakistanis in the heat of the moment? I sit down and wonder at times what is their real intent. They don’t talk about ANYTHING BUT TAKING POWER. Isn’t that a little strange?
Why does anyone think that these people will bring good to pakistan anyway?
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
It amazes and alarms me that both of them have not answered a single key question on how they will deal with ANY issues in pakistan. ALL you see them talk about is taking power.
Bhaijan, they are too busy salivating over the $16billion that Pakistan now has in forex reserves :)
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Democracy tou abhi bhie hay :)
I believe you mean, what would happen once Musharraf leaves and corrupts would come to power? :) What would happen is that Pakistan would get F*****d.
There would be huge orders from foreign countries and Pakistan would start receiving useless stuff at 10 times the prices. Well, stuff would come to Pakistan but (10-1 =) 9 times the price would go to Swiss accounts.
I think that things would be done professionally. That means instead of reserves increasing by around 3 billion dollars a year, it would start reducing by around 1.5 to 2 billion dollars annually.
[Value of dollar would start increasing in open market and we might see Rs 100 to a dollar 5 years later. Economy would stagnate or grow at around 3 to 4 percent. Rupees interest rate would rise again to (16 - 18) percent. Wages would get stagnant and inflation would start increasing. Stock market would go stagnant or might even start coming down. Companies would stop paying dividends and many would start going bankrupt. Bank default would increase ... etc, etc].
Pakistan would start borrowing rupees and dollars too at very high interest rate; that would be used to finance those purchases at 10 times the prices (so that dollars could be transferred to Swiss accounts). I think that Pakistan economy would show stagnation or slow growth for next 5 years or so, than Pakistanis would start feeling the pinch.
Well, that is what Pakistanis want ... than what anyone can do?
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
but will the bombings stop? economy is a key but only a part of it. what about the jihadi mutants? what about the provinces? what about Iran and India? The only policy I can see is that of meek slavery to the USA
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
So much venom against democracy. Why you forget that NS and BB can not become PM without the approval of Paki people. If BB comes through back door (Mush Deal), corruption will continue to new heights.
Don't forget that angels are not ruling the country for the last 8 years. They are more corrupt than BB or NS. There will be a disaster if military would continue its illegal and immoral control of the country.
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
So much venom against democracy. Why you forget that NS and BB can not become PM without the approval of Paki people. If BB comes through back door (Mush Deal), corruption will continue to new heights.
Don't forget that angels are not ruling the country for the last 8 years. They are more corrupt than BB or NS. There will be a disaster if military would continue its illegal and immoral control of the country.
If present government is corrupt than I would like to have such corrupt government with magic lamp that under whose rule Pakistan is having such a booming economy, where almost all adults have mobile phone (around 60 million mobile phone subscriber in an adult population of 60 to 70 millions), stock market gone from 1200 to 12500 and KSE capitalization gone up from around 4 billion dollars to today around 60 billion dollars.
Economy that was growing on average of 3 percent a year is now growing at healthy rate of around 8 percent a year. Country that was going through a period of 11 years (1988-1999) with real per capita income almost stagnant is today increasing at around 6 percent a year. In dollar terms per capita income that was actually deteriorating during those 11 years is today more than doubled in last 8 years (increased at over 10 percent a year).
Country where during last 8 years minimum wages have gone up by around 350 percent (from Rs 1200 month to around Rs 4600 a month) but prices gone up by only around 53 percent (thus standard of living for average people doubled). County where Chief Justice of Supreme Court used to get around Rs 20000 a month in 1988 is today getting around Rs 134000 a month in 2007. Country that was in dire state with 105 percent debt to GDP ration now has 55 percent Debt to GDP ration. Foreign exchange reserves that use to be less than 1 billion dollars are now sitting on over 16 billion dollars. And many more ……….
Well, a country where nothing happened (except a motorway few hundred miles long in 11 years) has seen 100s of mega and major projects started and got completed within last 8 years. Just imagine that Quaid Mazar that started in 1948 was half completed and nothing was moving there, got completed within first year of Musharraf government. I personally have friend that use to write me to find jobs abroad and many did moved abroad have stopped writing to find job abroad while many I know moving back.
Country that used to see government getting sacked every two to three years because of their corruption managed to complete 5 years. A country where government forces were used to do extra judicial killings on political ground and people became so intolerant that they use to kill each other for little things, where Sectarian violence was normal day to day reality and people were scared to go to mosque, where women were threatened with acid on their faces, today it is fighting retards of the past and trying to make country tolerant and secure for all.
WOW … After all what happened during last 8 years than if present government is corrupt than I would really love to see such corrupt government that can do corruptions as well as achieve so much.
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Democracy tou abhi bhie hay :)
I believe you mean, what would happen once Musharraf leaves and corrupts would come to power? :) What would happen is that Pakistan would get F*****d.
There would be huge orders from foreign countries and Pakistan would start receiving useless stuff at 10 times the prices. Well, stuff would come to Pakistan but (10-1 =) 9 times the price would go to Swiss accounts.
I think that things would be done professionally. That means instead of reserves increasing by around 3 billion dollars a year, it would start reducing by around 1.5 to 2 billion dollars annually.
Value of dollar would start increasing in open market and we might see Rs 100 to a dollar 5 years later. Economy would stagnate or grow at around 3 to 4 percent. Rupees interest rate would rise again to (16 - 18) percent. Wages would get stagnant and inflation would start increasing again. Stock market would go stagnant or might even start coming down. Companies would stop paying dividends and many would start going bankrupt. Bank default would increase like before ... etc, etc].
Pakistan would start borrowing rupees and dollars too at very high interest rate; that would be used to finance those purchases at 10 times the prices (so that dollars could be transferred to Swiss accounts). I think that Pakistan economy would show stagnation or slow growth for next 5 years or so, than Pakistanis would start feeling the pinch.
Well, that is what Pakistanis want ... than what anyone can do?
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
[quote]
=Saleem]Economy that was growing on average of 3 percent a year is now growing at healthy rate of around 8 percent a year. Country that was going through a period of 11 years (1988-1999) with real per capita income almost stagnant is today increasing at around 6 percent a year. In dollar terms per capita income that was actually deteriorating during those 11 years is today more than doubled in last 8 years (increased at over 10 percent a year).
[/quote]
This was due to black listing of the country by Uncle Sam to stop producing nuclear device. After Mush compromised on every thing with Uncle Sam on so called war against terrorism, the situation reversed. There is absolutely no contribution of Paki government what you are suggesting. Anyway what is the bottom line? Has country prospered? Has this trickled down to poor people? No- not in seven years then when? Perhaps never.
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
This was due to black listing of the country by Uncle Sam to stop producing nuclear device. After Mush compromised on every thing with Uncle Sam on so called war against terrorism, the situation reversed. There is absolutely no contribution of Paki government what you are suggesting. Anyway what is the bottom line? Has country prospered? Has this trickled down to poor people? No- not in seven years then when? Perhaps never.
Who told you that trickle down has not happened? .... OH ... it was BB and NS that you believe :). no problem. Anyhow, if minimum wages in Paksitan has gone up from around Rs1200 to Rs4600 a month during last 8 years, whereas prices gone up from Rs1200 to at most Rs1900, is that not trickle down effect?
When Pakistan adult population is around 60 to 65 million (rest are kids under 16) and Pakistan has 60 million mobile phone subscriber than is that not trickle down effect? Obviously don't tell me that NS or BB told you that Pakistanis may have mobile phone but still they cannot buy food, cause those that cannot have food would not subscribe mobile phone.
As for sanctions you are talking about, fact is that sanctions on Pakistan increased when Musharraf took over. Nuclear explosion happened in 1998 and thus effect of all sanctions related to nuclear detonation plus military rule came during Musharraf period, not before that.
As for USA: Until 11 september 2001, USA hated Musharraf, to an extend that when Clinton came to Pakistan, he did not even wanted to see Musharraf. As for NS, he was lap dog of Clinton and was agreed with Clinton that Pakistan should not detonate nuclear device, but army forced nuclear detonation. It was Clinton along with Saudi Arabia that forced Pakistan to release NS (now you can guess what sanctions USA would have on Pakistan when NS was ruling and when Musharraf started ruling).
Brother, don't think that we are all ignorant and would accept ignorantly whatever anyone says to misguide. That was the days of ignorance before President Musharraf came to power ;) [Most of the time we may keep quite, but that does not mean that people, especially those that are educated, do not understand]
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Saleem,
"if minimum wages in Paksitan has gone up from around Rs1200 to Rs4600 a month during last 8 years, whereas prices gone up from Rs1200 to at most Rs1900, is that not trickle down effect?"
The increase as compared to price hike is nothing. People were more prosper when they were earning Rs. 60 per month.
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Pakistani people don't give two figs about democracy, they just want good leaders and fast results. The overwhelming majority of people and almost all political parties supported the 12 Oct 99 coup against Nawaz Sharif without a second thought for the constitution.
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Saleem,
"if minimum wages in Paksitan has gone up from around Rs1200 to Rs4600 a month during last 8 years, whereas prices gone up from Rs1200 to at most Rs1900, is that not trickle down effect?"
The increase as compared to price hike is nothing. People were more prosper when they were earning Rs. 60 per month.
Brother, if you are weak in mathematics than that is not my fault. Is it? If wages gone up from around Rs 1200 to Rs 4600 and prices gone up from Rs 1200 to Rs 1900, it means that people today are around 2.5 times better off compare to prices, than what they were in 1999. That means, workers in 2007 can afford 2.5 times what they could have afforded in 1999. [Well, most of the government employees, especially one at lower grades are better off today by much more than 2.5 times what they were in 1999].
Now you are saying that increase over last 8 years compare to price hike is nothing? Is that a joke? Actually increase in average Pakistani wages in 1999 (last year of thug rulers) compare to 1988 (first year of thug rulers) was such that average earners (especially one in lower wage group) were slightly worse off (or same) in 1999 than they were in 1988 when price hike is taken into account. Now after price hike is taken into account, in 2007 these same earners are over 2.5 times better off than 1999, it is nothing?
Well, your comparison of people earning Rs 60 per month with present income is ridiculous. Because just saying that people earning Rs 60 per month without any mention of year, is meaningless figure.
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
i think we dont care who comes in power... but it would be interesting to see whoever steps in...how they will tackle this religious exteremsim in the country.......as one of the poster mention ...will this blowing up civilians would stop? *
*I would hate to see if the new gov. will get slapped in the face if these bombing will continue.... then i would love to see who these army haters would aim their hatered towards....
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Who told you that trickle down has not happened? .... OH ... it was BB and NS that you believe :). no problem. Anyhow, if minimum wages in Paksitan has gone up from around Rs1200 to Rs4600 a month during last 8 years, whereas prices gone up from Rs1200 to at most Rs1900, is that not trickle down effect?
price of which item has gone up only Rs 700 (58%), can you elaborate? Lets see what the prices of tomato, milk, meat, ghee/oil (cooking) were 8 years ago and compare them to today, shall we? Now since you made a claim I am sure you have access to database of prices, can you share here?
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Democracy is successfully implemented only when the population is ready. Pakistan, by large is a tribal/caste society and strongmen always run the show, regardless of the titles.
More importantly, it is important to see that NS/BB do not return to power. Two targeted hits can get the job done.
As for who can be the next PM? I say the field is wide open. New people should be given a chance and if they fail, toss them out.