Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Democracy is successfully implemented only when the population is ready. Pakistan, by large is a tribal/caste society and strongmen always run the show, regardless of the titles.d
Lets kill all the "democratic" institutions then and lets make Musharraf a king then wait for your turn to "drawing room" ;)
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More importantly, it is important to see that NS/BB do not return to power. Two targeted hits can get the job done.
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It is important, I agree but not by bargaining with one criminal and making accords with other.
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As for who can be the next PM? I say the field is wide open. New people should be given a chance and if they fail, toss them out.
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As long as ISI/military is not involved in "evolving" someone as PM I would be okay.
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Where do we go from there? Do we pick up where we left off?
Will the treasury be continued to be raped by nawaz, benazir and their families like before? Will their people will use and abuse every instrument of the system to their benefit again? What good is democracy to pakistan at the current situation?
well the door on those 2 corrupt scums has already been closed by Musharraf himself through that 2 time bar - constitutional ammendment. Now if he repels that ammendment for his own personal benefit, who do we blame for bringing those plunderers back onto mainstage politics?
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
well the door on those 2 corrupt scums has already been closed by Musharraf himself through that 2 time bar - constitutional ammendment. Now if he repels that ammendment for his own personal benefit, who do we blame for bringing those plunderers back onto mainstage politics?
That bar has now become his backyard fence door like, which he can open/close anytime he wants. Constitution is a game for him, he can ignore it when he likes or "adopt/modify" when he likes.
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
^ I think the CJ should put a stop to all this nonsence and call President Musharaf's rule illegal. Why is he not doing that. Surely, sorting out the traffic issues in Karachi is not the highest priority?
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Regardless of which one of them is in power, things won't change for the better, and then it will be America's fault that the general was overthrown, either by Nawaz or Benazir. It's always an american conspiracy.
Re: So lets assume we have "democracy" again. What then?
Regardless of which one of them is in power, things won't change for the better, and then it will be America's fault that the general was overthrown, either by Nawaz or Benazir. It's always an american conspiracy.
how many times have you seen a General getting overthrown in Pakistani politics - and that too by a politician ??
Re: So lets assume we have “democracy” again. What then?
Do you think that I am one of those blind loyal of NS, BB, Qazi, Imran, Fazlu, Al-Qaida, Taliban who would misquote just because they love some one … etc. or do you think I am blind loyal Musharraf hater who would misquote just because they hate someone?
Believe me, I never try to misguide anyone or quote something without having any knowledge of that. That means what I quoted must be having some substance :). You still do not believe me than, you should … otherwise … otherwise … otherwise I would dig out the figures and would prove that what I quoted has substance.
Anyhow: I did not write that price of any particular item has risen X percent, but I wrote that about average price of number of items. As for particular item, what I know is that price of many electronic goods have gone down in Pakistan. Most telecommunication items have also gone down in Pakistan (for instance cost of making a phone call). By using the price of items that became cheaper as reference if anyone would say that prices on average has gone down, than that would be misleading statement. Similarly to look at prices of some item that gone up much more than average and refer to that to judge average price would be misleading statement too.
Anyhow, prices I quoted is average price of all items. On the other hand, even if one take out all items and talk only about food items, than also average price of food items has not gone up that much, as that again at most have gone up around 50 to 70 percent since Musharraf came to power. As for food item, I think that price of chicken has probably gone down or has not gone up a lot since 1999. Anyhow, what I know, largest increase in fresh food item has happened in Islamabad and even there fresh food items has not gone up more than 5 to 8 percent a year over last 8 years (or from 45 percent to 80 percent during Musharraf rule).
If you do not believe me, than I will have to dig the figures.
Re: So lets assume we have “democracy” again. What then?
Bhai jaan, don’t create a fuss/noise about blind follower or not, I simply asked a question irrespective of who you blindly follow or not-blindly-follow.
Gone up/down/average are all relative things… lets get actual numbers
Chicken prices fluctuated a lot even in Bibi/Ganja times… the most non-fluctuating prices (only going up) have been of milk, ghee, fuel, flour, vegetables (tomato, potato, “lady-finger” :D), beef, goat. Any data on these items?
Re: So lets assume we have “democracy” again. What then?
Aalsi bhaijaan, as someone has already used the comparison with whores, I shall only say that there are quite a lot of whores that have benefitted, especially those judges that validated Musharraf’s rule come to mind. I shall not name names, but I am sure you know who they are.
Re: So lets assume we have “democracy” again. What then?
Brother previous post I just posted as khana-puri, shugul … aur aap tou younhee kush hou liya :D. Just wanted to see some responses, hoping that some might take that as weakness and may start writing about what I wrote as me evading your question :). Anyhow, here is what you asked:
These are ‘Federal Bureau of Statistics’ figures quoted by State Bank of Pakistan on their web site.
You can calculate yourself the figures of total inflation from 1999-2007 from above figures (I calculated and put that down for your convenience). From the above figures:
Prices of average goods from 1999 to 2007 (that includes food items and non-food items) have gone up in prices by 53.48 percent.
**Prices of average food items from 1999 to 2007 have gone up in prices by 56.87 percent. **
Prices of average non-food items from 1999 to 2007 have gone up in prices by 50.85 percent
That is the figure I quoted in my earlier post, that prices have increased by around 53.5 percent over last 8 years of Musharraf rule.
Now the above figures are figures of ‘Federal Bureau of Statistics’ that does survey of prices all the time, and that figures state bank of Pakistan also quotes. Last figure is accumulative compound increase over the 8 years period (from 1999 to 2007, calculated from yearly figures).
Anyhow, this is not the end of my reference :). Here is what was raised by Supreme Court judges of Pakistan (regarding allotment of plot for agriculture in Islamabad) quoting the food price inflation in Islamabad (due to misuse of allotments), from News reported in DAWN (24th July 2007). Justice Javed Iqbal initiated suo motu proceedings on plots given to people for agricultural purposes so that prices in Islamabad does not increase more than normal increase in the country (because if there is no agricultural land producing essential foods within the vicinity of Islamabad, these items have to come from outside and thus prices of essential food items in Islamabad be higher because of transport cost)
In this report, reference of PPP Senator Enver Baig is also given. According to Senator Enver Baig, prices of essential commodities in Islamabad increased 41 to 89 percent during 8 years of Musharraf rule. That quote was given by Senator Enver Baig in context that this increase 41 to 89 percent in Islamabad is much more than country wide increase, because people who were allotted land for agriculture started using that as farm houses.
[From report given below: Senator Enver Baig presented the statistics of the Federal Bureau of Statistics to show that prices of essential commodities increased by 41 to 89 per cent between 2000 and 2007 (8 years of Musharraf rule)].
Now, if according to Senator Enver Baig, 41 to 89 percent increase in prices in Islamabad is higher than else where in Pakistan. It shows that maximum increase in price of essential items at place where increase was the most (Islamabad) is less than 89 percent.
Anyhow, according to ‘Federal Bureau of Statistics’ (quoted by State Bank of Pakistan) average price increase of all items (foods and non-foods) during last 8 years (from 1999 to 2000) is 53.48 percent.
Now with compare to increase in wages, that is more than 300 percent of what it was in 1999. That is really a good rise and no one should complain.
Just imagine that Chief Justice must be a very happy man today, as his salary was around Rs 20000 a month in 1998 and today it is Rs 134000 a month. (That is a rise of over 670 percent (six hundred and Seventy percent) in 9 years (or an increase of 23.5 percent a year every year since 1998).
Supreme Court takes up public causes By Our Staff Reporter
ISLAMABAD, July 23: People who were given farmland on the outskirts of Islamabad by the Capital Development Authority (CDA) for growing farm products but turned them into farm houses may lose it all.
A bench of the Supreme Court comprising Justice Javed Iqbal, Justice Abdul Hameed Dogar and Justice Muhammad Nawaz Abbasi, hinted at cancelling the allotments while considering public interest cases here on Monday.
It asked CDA chairman to submit a report naming the persons given agriculture farms in Chak Shahzad and any request received from them for changing the purpose for which it were allotted.
The purpose set by Islamabad’s Master Plan for these farms was to supply fresh fruits, vegetables and poultry items to the residents of Islamabad. But most of the elite and influential people who were doled out the farmlands turned them into palatial farm houses.
Other issues taken up by the bench related to unchecked price hike in the twin cities of Islamabad and Rawalpindi and last year’s sugar scandal.
On the first issue the bench asked federal secretaries of finance, commerce, industries and agriculture to appear before it and explain why the rise in prices could not be checked.
On the second issue, the bench directed Prosecutor General National Accountability Bureau (NAB) to inform the court about the outcome of its preliminary investigation into the multi billion scandal.
Public hue and cry over the double digit food inflation recorded in the two cities had attracted the attention of the Supreme Court.
Justice Javed Iqbal initiated suo motu proceedings and Rawalpindi District Coordinating Officer (DCO) and Chief Commissioner Islamabad Khalid Pervez were directed to submit a comprehensive report in this regard.
The CDA is protecting huge palaces of lords built on acres of lands meant for farming when the rural areas adjoining the capital were without streets, water supply or other essentials,” observed Justice Abbasi during Monday’s proceedings.
While referring to the recently built Rs70 million Simly Road, which is now in tatters, he deplored that what to talk of pure milk, the citizens of Islamabad hardly get even proper milk.
Justice Javed Iqbal emphasised the need of establishing consumer associations to check prices, lamenting that the entire country was in the grip of different mafia because there were no organizations to watch the interest of consumers.
At this Justice Abbasi recalled that the Access to Justice Programme had laid great emphasis on setting up consumer courts but deplored that the vested interest did not let it happen.
In his report to the court the Chief Commissioner of Islamabad said the weekly bazaars in Sectors G-9, I-9 and G-6, and 35 Utility Stores, were great help in checking the prices of essential goods.
Three assistant commissioners and four magistrates were also constantly attending complaints about high prices in the city. Recently 260 shops were fined for not displaying rate list or indulging in profiteering.
Advocate Babar Awan pleaded that price hike could only be checked if attacked on three tiers, namely at production stage, middle men and retailers.
Senator Enver Baig presented the statistics of the Federal Bureau of Statistics to show that prices of essential commodities increased by 41 to 89 per cent between 2000 and 2007.
He alleged that hoarders creating price spiral were all linked to the ruling clan and insisted that former NAB chairman Shahid Aziz should be summoned to inform the court about the sugar scandal that rocked the country last year in which the sugar mafia sitting in the parliament reaped Rs41 billion.
