So I was surfing GS

[pak-one]

@PyariCgudia

What is Godh barai?

Pak-one: do you guys reject rishtas based on the tribe, though? I thought that was common in western Pakistan too.

Shak, you make sense. Snowmen

The rishtas are not necessarily because the tribe is “lower” in status, more like there is a 3 century old vendetta with them. Not saying that it’s better (in fact equally idiotic) just different.

I know Afridis that are street cleaners to cricket stars, you can’t disassociate yourself based on occupation. Of course, people are people and they will find ways of making themselves appear better, however we not have the same cultural underpinnings as Punjabis.

[pak-one]

Oh please!! what a pack of lies... I know cuz I'm a baloch.

What can I say? Most of the Balochi people that I know believe in tribal equality and are proud of that fact.

I am sorry that you hang around people who believe in tribal hierarchies.

[pak-one]

@Miss_Noland

Exactly! The way I see it, people misuse the term “caste” in Pakistan. They have no idea what caste really means outside of Pakistan. I don’t think caste system exists in Pakistan because no one thinks you are better because you belong to a certain tribe. That’s so not right! It’s just for identification purposes, I absolutely agree with that.

:k: Absolutely.

[PunjabiRose]

@Miss_Noland

You know what, you may be right about that. I have heard that too from Punjabis. It’s always Punjabis! Your family sounds a bit more concerned about zaat than most punjabis I have known. Most punjabis I know don’t give 2 s**ts about zaat, including my own inlaws to be. This kind of mentality is indeed pathetic. I guess castes do exist but only in certain areas of Punjab. Also, “thekedaar” could be a caste I guess..The first time I heard about zaat was actually from my Punjabi fiance when he just casually brought it up. In my entire life, I had never thought a Pakistani could care about my last name.

P.S. I only replied to your last part of the post because everything above is irrelevant to the actual topic and I don’t want to derail this thread

Mabey the whole “caste” thing is more prevalent in Punjab because it was an area that was very heavily mixed with Hindu and Sikh people???

I am marrying an urdu-speaking guy and have no idea what his “zaat” is.. as I said .. my parents dont care. They are an exception because sadly you are right and most of my khandaan is concerned about zaat… and yea… it seems like they more concerned about it because according them they are “on the top of the food chain”. And so its a matter of pride to them… they can’t marry “below” them. And honestly, the Hindus and Sikhs I have met who are in the same “caste” as my family… they think the same way. Sad that even tho we are muslim, we havn’t been able to move away from this practice…

But as I also said… most of my khandaan was Sikh only 5 generations ago. That is seriously not that long ago…Basically my grandparent’s grandparents converted. This is on both sides of my family…

@Reha

Where do they get the idea that its okay?

There was one I went to where the mom had the whole almost bridal thing going on, sitting on a jhoola, etc. .

Reha… were we at the same Godh Barai lol. I went one where it seriously looked almost bridal. Mom to be was decked out …sitting in on a jhoola… there was dholki… decorations like woah…

[MIAinVA]

Re: So I was surfing GS

I thought Godh bharai was a desi version of a baby shower

[PunjabiRose]

Re: So I was surfing GS

^ Nope .... its a straight up Hindu Ceremony. It is held at a specific time and specific rituals occur. Not "desi" at all.

[Stork]

Re: So I was surfing GS

Pujabigulabi - Godh-bhar-Ayee is just as hindu as a baby Shower is Christian.

[soundarya]

so... back to the original topic which has to do with the looking for rishtas thread...
CM, I think you should check that thread out again. There are some new and very different rishtas posted. :)

[sidra87]

Re: So I was surfing GS

I am definatley not the most religious person you will ever meet, but I have had conversations about this "cast" system with my parents and our local imaam because I was introduced to it by random pakistanis. My parents our family do not belive in this caste system mainly because both of my parents forfathers were muslims for many many generations and they know better. My parents always told me this, when you stand up in front of Allah he is not going to ask you if you were form Pakistan, India, or America etc etc, or if if you were Punjabi, memon, urdu speaking etc etc. He will ask you one thing: Were you muslim?

Sadly, this is true most people think they are "better" than other people because they belong to some part of pakistan or are from a certain caste. Pakistan is a "islamic" country and it is stated in the Quran that We (humans) are in NO position to judge who is BETTER than whom. That is Allah SWTs responsbility not ours. Allah made, me, you and others reading this post form the same soil/clay whatever you want to call it. Allah didnt whip out a special mixture for the punjabis, memos or hyderabadis. etc etc.

Wanting to marry someone who comes from a certain familial or educational background is not the same as the caste system folks. thats called personal preference! We all have it from clothing to shoes to food to music and everything in between including marriage (considering most of us have realistic expectations!) Lets not confuse lineage with personal preference. Maybe we can replace the word blood lineage/lineage with caste sytem??? We are so blinded by where the other person is from their blood line that we get so clouded in it. During the Prophets time it was mentioned that he was the Quresh becuase they didnt have the modern technological facilities of today. maps, intricate cities. Muslimes wre distinguished from non muslims by their tribal names. Islam was young and developing. But at the end of the day the prophet didnt ask about anyones "tribe" he said we are all Muslims, one ummah! not this ridiculous mess that we have came to be today!!

It is sad to see that in these times Pakistan and its countrymen (not all) are stuck upon these irrelavant ideologies. yet, they go around preaching islam. :(

This whole Jahiz thing, silly! Every parent wether white, black, italian etc etc give their daughter and sons presents when they get married inorder to express their happiness, to help the new couple start their new life. Not this because we HAVE to give our daughters this and that until we go broke. In the HINDU culture/religion jahiz was given to the daughter because girls are considered a bad omen and to get them permanently out of the parents lives they gave them jahiz.

[Deeba1234]

I fully agree that caste is not a Muslim concept insofar as the religion does not support using caste, etc. to evaluate a fellow muslim's worthiness.

But going off on a slight tangent (and no, I'm not advocating caste or zaat distinctions) - the ummah did use clan or tribal identifiers in our Prophet's time, i.e. Bani Hashim, Bani Ummayah, etc. These were social, territorial distinctions that have some carry over impact. So, I'd argue that the Hindu influence isn't the sole source of Muslims clinging to zaat, biraadri, caste identifiers.

So, while I agree it's not an Islamic concept, there's some history for caste/tribal distinctions the Arab culture.

But they didn't 'stick to their own', those Arabs even married black ppl, something that 99.9% of Pakistanis wouldn't consider. Like u said, nothing wrong with tribes in themselves but to imply that one tribe is better than another or they should only marry within their own ppl (as our caste systems impy) of course is wrong..