It's not even the meaning of the word. You can't just take a word, and assign some different meaning to it. Because, if you remember, we all used to be one people at one point in time in history. So the use of the word, was, is, and always will be a reference to socioeconomic status. Not ethnic status.
You can have a brahman who is Punjabi, and you can have a brahman that is Gujrati. Likewise, you can have an Untouchable who is Punjabi, and you can have an untouchable who is Gujrati.
The way we use it, we consider anyone who is not Punjabi to be scum on earth. That's not only ridiculous, but it doesn't even stay true to the original meaning of the word "caste" as it is known by nearly everyone on the planet.
Ok so people generally think its wrong to put so much emphasis on finding someone from the same caste. But what about the sect your from? sunnis usually want sunnis and shia's usually want to marry within their sect. is this ok? or does it just serve as yet another restriction narrowing down an already small pool of potentially eligible partners. and if your from one of the smaller, less mainstream sects your completely doomed!
It's not even the meaning of the word. You can't just take a word, and assign some different meaning to it. Because, if you remember, we all used to be one people at one point in time in history. So the use of the word, was, is, and always will be a reference to socioeconomic status. Not ethnic status.
Exactly
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You can have a brahman who is Punjabi, and you can have a brahman that is Gujrati. Likewise, you can have an Untouchable who is Punjabi, and you can have an untouchable who is Gujrati.
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Yup, their caste system is based on socioeconomic status rather than Ethnicity. It's a misconception that the Indian Caste system is racial. Racism is now associated with the Caste System due to years of Implerialism which led to this abominable mentality among us that associates light skin color with higher authority and power; darker tones with intellectual incompatibility. Fortunately, it's not common among Pakistanis.
[QUOTE] The way we use it, we consider anyone who is not Punjabi to be scum on earth. That's not only ridiculous, but it doesn't even stay true to the original meaning of the word "caste" as it is known by nearly everyone on the planet.
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That's not true! You could say that about our government though, LOL. We don't have a caste system in Pakistan, it's ridiculous to think we do. If anything, it's more about ethnic groups than status
Shias and sunnis should honestly marry one another, because they're not really two separate religions. But if people have a big heart attack over whether you should teach your kids to pray 5 times vs. 3 times, I can see that being a really big issue for some people.
But there is no reason not to marry someone from another ethnicity. Pakistanis in general have a lot in common, especially the current generation who doesn't really see themselves as "Oh we're from Hyderabad" or "We migrated from South India", or "We migrated from Delhi, so we only want people from Delhi". I don't see that being a big issue to obstruct two people from getting married these days. I see Pakistanis in general as one group of people.
Its true we adopted a lot of stuff living close to hindus i.e. Caste system , marriage traditions(mehndi , jahaaz etc) . I think now people are getting more educated and getting rid of old dumb traditions .
Miss Noland in Islam there is no concept of caste. It is haraam. Just like Tribes have little to no importance in Islam. The notion is dictated by religion that all that matters is how good a muslim you are and that is it. We belong to one nation. One Ummah. No concept of your caste has any importance at all in your personal life.
People use caste to define stature or importance. They also attribute unrealistic ideas to their caste. Like Rajputs are great warriors. Like hell they are. Just because you are a rajput doesn't make you any better than the other dumbass down the street.
The answer is there. The concept of castes is a hindu tradition. Not a Islamic one. That way the entire system has been taken by the Pakistani people and used with muslim sugar coating. But it is still a kufar practice.
I fully agree that caste is not a Muslim concept insofar as the religion does not support using caste, etc. to evaluate a fellow muslim's worthiness.
But going off on a slight tangent (and no, I'm not advocating caste or zaat distinctions) - the ummah did use clan or tribal identifiers in our Prophet's time, i.e. Bani Hashim, Bani Ummayah, etc. These were social, territorial distinctions that have some carry over impact. So, I'd argue that the Hindu influence isn't the sole source of Muslims clinging to zaat, biraadri, caste identifiers.
So, while I agree it's not an Islamic concept, there's some history for caste/tribal distinctions the Arab culture.
Yeah, except that the Prophet frowned on those distinctions incredibly. He himself was from the Qureish tribe, and truly did not give a flying rat's behind when he was preaching and his Qureish members were telling him to stop.
The whole Bani Hashim, etc, business gets amplified after the Prophet's death, because he wasn't around to tell people to stop making tribalism such a big issue.
Miss Noland in Islam there is no concept of caste. It is haraam. Just like Tribes have little to no importance in Islam. The notion is dictated by religion that all that matters is how good a muslim you are and that is it. We belong to one nation. One Ummah. No concept of your caste has any importance at all in your personal life.
Umm what? When did I say any of that?
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Peope use caste to define stature or importance. They also attribute unrealistic ideas to their caste. Like Rajputs are great warriors. Like hell they are. Just because you are a rajput doesn't make you any better than the other dumbass down the street.
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Correct. My only point was it's not the same caste system Indians use. They are both ridiculously stupid but that's another issue.
CM, yeah it is really unfortunate pakistanis claiming to be muslims adopting to the castes and other negative traditions of the hindu & tribal societies. the narrow minded & inflexible way of life is also from one of those cultures.
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Some/most people were asking about castes and what caste they were.
To be honest I was rather repulsed by the jahil attitude displayed in the threads. The concept of caste is a hindu tradition and not one even allowed by Islam so why do people place so much importance on it in this modern day and age?
I think the caste system is only the tip of the iceberg. Ever been to a Pakistani wedding? What's the difference between that an Indian one? Qazi vs. Pandit.
Also we need to make a differentiation between castes and tribes because in the Pakhtun/Baluch cultures the tribes serve as identifiers and not social indicators. Certain tribes might be in power or have an edge in the literary circles, but I have yet to meet a person from the Western part of Pakistan who thinks he/she is "better" because of a particular tribal affiliation.
I understand that Punjabis, Sindhis, and Urdu speakers have more of this caste thing, where people think that they are "better" than others based on the caste affiliations, which is both unIslamic and anti-egalitarian.
You guys gotta admit. My rishtaa ad kicks butt. Funny thing is, I'm being so nice in laying it all out so there are no surprises and so far no one has proposed.
Meanwhile all the other girls there...all we know is that they are sweet and one of a kind and pretty ma'shallah and work as this or that.
Yeah ok. Tell us about how sweet she is when her period rolls around or tell us if she is actually a rude snobby materialistic gold-digger.
