So I got to thinking...

I also support this point as I have said before that the actual problem raises when in-laws start taking her 'khidmat' and 'humanity' for granted. One should acknowledge someone's actions. Mostly people don't usually acknowledge.

secondly, Islam is not the issue, if we do anything which is against the ethics then it should be condemned no matter if it belongs to bahu herself. If she wants to get freedom just to go out for shopping and to utilize husband's money freely then it would be un-fair to her husband. So, everything should be based on 'justice' not on 'priority'

TLK…she cannot be required. She can be requested just like a man can be requested to do something nice. She can be encouraged. But her MIL/FIL are not her responsibility. THey are their son’s responsibility. Just like her parents are her and her family’s responsibility, so are his.

THe second part, I agree with 1000%.

This is also true. These days larkiyan milna koi mushkil kaam nahin hai to larki ki value kam hogayi hai.

Taking care of my elders is a great thing but it cannot be forced on me which most of the time it is. I should be asked and not told because it isnt my job to slave after them. When typical Pakistani inlaws bring home a bahu, they dont do it because unko apne betay ko khush dekhna hai…they do it because unko apne aap ko khush karna hai. Vo larki shauhar ke liye baad mein aati hai, pehle susraal valon ke liye.

Like I said, she can demand all of the above if she is being required to take care of his family like its an order. No, its not an order. It never was and never will be. Its not her obligation. She should do it if her husband asks her to make him happy and keep the peace but there should also be some amount of appreciation there because had he been doing that for her…Im sure appreciation would have been demanded.

In our society and culture…a guy’s parents matter more than a girl’s. Deny all you want but its the truth. Ive rarely seen thraeds here on a girl’s family being opened because they are somehow required to magically take care of themselves…but a guy’s parents? No way…they worked so much harder to take care of a male-child…they need all the khidmat they can get. If a guy takes care of his inlaws…ohmigosh what a sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeetheart! But if a girl does the same…yeah so? Every girl does it. What else is new?

Tolerance is great thing, but from both sides. And ye baatein kehne aur sunne mein bohot achi lagti hein ke sab ke saat pyar aur muhabbat karke raho aur buray ke saat buri mat bano, etc. But how long do you think a girl will be able to handle it before it starts to grate on her nerves and she begins to resent society, inlaws and her husband? Its not long before those girls become the bitter old auntiyan that we all hate so much.

Islam becomes an issue when men use it to keep a woman at home. Like ghar ko sambhalna aurat ka kaam hai...bachon ko dekhna aurat ka kaam hai...shauhar ko dekhna aurat ka kaam hai...aur saat mein khamoshi se inlaws ko bhi daal diya jata hai...ke unki khidmat karna bhi tumhara kaam hai. Aur vo larki bakri ki tarha moon hila ke kaam karna shuru kardeti hai. Because she feels outnumbered and doesnt know what else to do.

When its used like that (which it is) to push a woman to do something...then she should be able to bring Islam up as well and say..."speaking of Islamic rights and responsibilities...did you see that house for sale the other day? I feel like exercising my Islamic rights right about now too".

Re: So I got to thinking...

Why bring Islam into it then??? It is a problem with our society NOT ISLAM!!! It is a problem with the individual, NOT ALL MUSLIMS IN GENERAL!!! It's US MUSLIMS that give Islam a bad name, not the western world!!! Why do we all harp on about Islam when it is even obvious to a monkey that what we are really talking about is society and culture .....!!!
.....even culture can't really be blamed here as that is too objective... what you are talking about is subjective.... it is about those individual people that make a daughter-in-law's or the in-laws life hell!!! It is about that individual person... you can't blame religion or culture for their messed up way of looking at life!!!

Namaan is effectively blaming your mothers. Good on your sport!

bilkul baja saktee hai and I am telling you, guy will happily to oblige in 75% of the cases. At least in my case she is exercising this right and I have no problem with it neither I had problem when she was working.

People have to understand these rights, responsibilities, who-is-required-to-do-what talk looks good from the mouth of activists, feminists, Islamists etc but a healthy relationship can not grow if any one of the couple try to enforce "go by book" policy or in this case "go by rights/responsibilities" policy. Relationship is healthy and smooth when both understand each other and are ready to give-and-take just for the sake of other half.

Girls are not naive. It comes with the territory of marrying into our culture.

Culture overrides religion.

I find it funny how we desi girls, especially lately, have started to bring religion into everything when it suits us. However, when it doesnt suit us (for instance the hijab issue, modesty, namaaz), well then they will just bring in the society, work, busy time etc etc .... :)

No one is obligated to do anything for anyone, not even a son or daughter if they dont want to. So as long as the bahu is living with the inlaws in the same house she has got some responsibilities whether it is written black and white in Islam or not. If our desi bahus can demand the same amount of gold and bari (as jehaz) for the inlaws daughter (yes I have seen examples of tht here on GS!) then I think they should start thinking of their PIL as parents only and not inlaws.

:k: exactly.

Islam is brought into it when the girl is required to stay home. Islam is also brought into it when she is asked to give up her career. Islam is also brought into it when she is living with inlaws...so why is it horrible if she brings Islam up to defend herself?

I have actually seen more people demanding jehez than girls voluntarily taking it. Humko "motor car" chahiye hai, cash, sona, bedroom ka furniture, living room set, etc etc etc. Humne apne betay pe itna kharch kiya hai...iski parvarish mein bara kharcha huwa hai humara...etc etc etc.

My point is, when girls are told to do something because Musalman aurtein aisa hi karti hein...then why dont these Musalman aurtein stand up and demand what they're entitled to as well? Islam ka naam leke inko roka jata hai right? To Islam ka naam leke ye apna haq kyun nahin mang sakteen?

Huh?

Where does it say in Islam that you're supposed to cook and clean for your neighbor, pay for their expenses, acquiesce to their demands no matter how silly, change your life according to their needs and requests, live with them 24-7 and never be able to get a place of your own even if you could afford it...

I think when Islam recommends you take care of your neighbor, it means help them when they're in need, be nice to them, don't run over their billi, and if their mail ends up in your mailbox, be kind enough to give it to them.

Re: So I got to thinking...

And true, I don't think muslim girls are excercising their Islamic rights enough.

Rights to your own living space

Rights to access the funds being brought into your own home

Rights to having an opinion on how to spend those funds on your household

Rights to walking into a marriage without a dowry

Rights to taking care of your own parents just as much as his parents (ex. letting your disabled mom stay with you regardless of how annoyed HIS mom is about that, while HIS mom lives with you and could very well function perfectly fine living on her own with her husband).

Rights to have a career.

Rights to have your hobbies.

Rights to not have religion forced upon you.

etc etc.

Re: So I got to thinking...

This is sad...

Aurat ko mard kahe ke tumhara kaam hai ghar mein baitna...Islam ne aurat ki jaga ghar mein banayi hai

If she says that is wrong...in actuality these are my rights...other women stand up and say...tum hijab nahin karteen, namaz nahin parteen, etc...tumko in cheezon ka koi haq nahin hai.

Maybe Nomi is right. For the first time. Maybe the problem is with the women. Aurat apni hi dushman hai.

Re: So I got to thinking...

^^ PCG, neighbors have far many rights than we even know of. Of course things here in the US are a bit different as many folks don't even know their next door neighbors, but let's say there is an Islamic community and a subdivision consisting of a large number of homes...I forget the measurements, as a muslim, we need to be aware of anyone who needs our help. We are accountable if our neighbor went hungry...let me not get into this because though I've heard the rulings & hadeeth several times I unfortunately can't remember the details.

Having said that, it is important to respect and care for elders. Adab for elders is a great virtue. And yes you do get credit points for that. Like someone mentioned, we, and that includes men, suddenly become aware of our Islamic rights when it suits us the most. Other times we make statements like "to each their own" or "there is no compulsion in Islam" or "we shouldn't be judgemental" etc.

The thing is that when we get into a marriage we should have good expectations and treat our in laws like our family. If things don't work out for some reason, then yes, a woman can demand certain benefits from her husband. However, to exploit those rights without even trying to be a good daughter in law is just being immature.

Now why our desi girls don't stand up for their rights? Cultural influence perhaps?

that is very different than the expectations some families have of their bahus. Some bahus get seriously ABUSED. Yes, you have an obligation to take care of people. But why is it when marriages are arranged, the girl's parents are never taken into consideration. What happens to those parents if they have no son? They're pretty screwed. But RARELY will you see a girl's family move in with her, or a guy move in with his in-laws to prevent them from being lonely or in cases where those parents have medical conditions and they need to be monitored or taken care of more around the clock?

Don't try to equate the rights of neighbors with our responsibilities towards our inlaws. It only makes sense that a guy's inlaws deserve the same treatment that a girl's inlaws get, but that's not the reality. We are skewed to treat our inlaws better than we treat our own parents as girls, and our husbands have zero responsibility, culturally, to help our parents.

Not such a big deal if you have brothers, but if you dont have brothers, your parents are pretty much out of luck.

That's not fair at all. And how is that Islamic?

Regardless, women have more rights than our culture affords to them, and they should stop being scared and demand those rights. We still live in a culture where girls sign their nikkahnamas without reading the final copy.

I have never in my life ever heard anyone "openly" demanding jahez and where I come from, only jahil and indecent people would ever do that. Though most well off families do give their daughters jahez because of their own reputation, they want to show everyone how well off they are.. typical desi

I do understand your point, and I agree Islam has given a woman loads of rights, but dont you think it is kinda hypocritical to demand your (=generally speaking) rights when you dont even fulfill your farzs. For me that is like asking my boss for a bonus without doing the work.

Re: So I got to thinking...

No the only reason we bring the neighbor comparison is to make a point that we are obligated towards every kind of relationship...anyways, coming back to the issue of in laws, yes, a lot of bahus are illtreated even today and the reason why some girls don't stand up for their Islamic rights is because 1. They probably aren't even aware of them 2. Because their parents don't support them and take them through guilt trips such as hamari naak kat jayi gi and 3. Because they have very low self esteem that stems from lack of education and/or our cultural set up.

However, these days there is an increasing number of cases where girls get into a marriage with this aggressive mindset where there will be zero tolerance towards in laws. What do you say about this?

Have you ever asked your parents if they would like to live with you (incase u dont have brothers), because generally speaking most desi parents couldnt dream of living with their daughters and their family. For most of them it is a tabu, something one does in desperation. I dont think you can blame the husbands entirely, I know a lot of guys who are very respectful of their inlaws and would do anything to help them, but the inlaws dont want their help because its the damaad.

*I think its funny to see/read how we keep coming back to the "poor bahu"-syndrom, which is not entirely true, because a lot of inlaws are actually quite nice yet the bahu's are suffering from the "poor me" syndrome ... just like our desi society!

Like always :@:

Men's families have done a pretty good job of making sure it stays this way.