So how exactly was Benazir Bhutto killed!? (MERGED)

[LockJaw]

Re: Video of Benazir Shot

point is guys, if you want to say the government did it, just say the government did it. saying it was a gun or shrapnel not the lever and there was a sniper or ak47 or whatever doesnt prove that the government did it, all it can hope to prove is that they're lying about the lever bit (which they have sufficient motive to do anyway, to minimize their incompetance)

none of these things is "proof". this stuff is probably giving a lot of conspiracy-theories a self-esteem boost right now

[Ali_R]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

Ali_R do you feel baitullah mashud exists? or is he a made up figure?

was lal masjid a figment of our collective imaginations? or are there actually corporeal, physical, militiarized molvies intent on imposing a particular form of Islam?

if you and i cant agree that certain religiously motivated terrorists exist and cause violence and bombings in Pakistan aside from the agencies aspect, then yes we can never agree on anything.

assuming we can begin with this shared basis, what then becomes the crux of this whole issue? whether or not agencies are using the militants for their own reasons, the fact that these militants exist and have suicide bombed (even if Benazir was shot by agencies, a completely, COMPLETELY BASELESS accusation), the criminal militants are atleast guilty of being a very convincing scapegoat thats done much else. So get them, focus on them, call to kill those idiots, and if you do that right then you take away the agencies aspect in the process.

It"s not about the existance of some one. As long as we have people in believing Mullahs and radicals we will never see peace. We have brainwashed, corrupted extremism onboard. No doubts and whatever has happened at Lal Masjid the Government had my backing, but you can not justify one with another action.
This was an assassination and the work of terrorists, with the blessings of higher instances.
Do not forget ISI has still extremist members supporting Taliban!!!

[LockJaw]

Re: BB’s death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

chintu_bhopali… i think i begin to understand some of your posts now

Ali_R, if you acknowledge that these militants exist, and have claimed similar attacks in the past, and have already claimed (atleast according to some news sources) this one, then the focus of these threads is misplaced. For one, if it was gunshots instead of lever, then Taleban are known to posess.. shock… GUNS.

Why waste time with unprovable assertions (the unprovable bit is about who killed her, not whether it was the lever or the bullet) about agencies vs mashood. You DONT have a concrete target as far as ISI is concerned. You DO have one with Baitullah. Focus there, and let the Baitullah apologists (and there are plenty of those, including in the ISI and ex-ISI) keep making these innocent-baitullah-bad-agencies arguments.

you’re never going to win against a nebulous unknown segment of a secretive intelligence agency. you can expect your army to fight and decimate a bunch of crazed violent wingnut mullas. you’ll eliminate the crutch of the agencies you hate in the process.

[5Abi]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

I dont this buy interior ministry statement :P

[Krypton]

Re: BB’s death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

http://daily.urdupoint.com/Live-Pics.php?picId=3931&page1=1&date1=2007-12-28

scroll down. pictures

[danday_wala]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

*She was killed by bullet wounds on the neck. Which were not fired by suicide bomber. * So If Govt. tell ppl that she was killed by a trained sniper and bomber was just a backup.

Have you seen the bullet wounds in her neck?
Have you seen her neck at all?

Have you?
If not, then please just refrain from making such statements.

I don't know if what the secretary of interior ministry said was right or wrong. I can give my two cents on the plausibility of a "death by hitting against a lever theory".

Here is what the guy said:

The first assessments at the moment, he said, shows that after the firing sound Benazir tried to duck down abruptly and at that very moment the blast went off.

With the very high intensity of the blast, she was hit very hard against the lever (a hard metalic lever). That may have caused her death.

Now please hit your head against a door handle with the sharper side pointed towards the area near your ears. Do it as powerfully as you can. Tell me in the next world, if we manage to see us there, how it felt like?

Now multiply the strength with what you hit the door handle with at least 100 times and tell me why the death theory could not be plausible?

People are going to know that agencies murdered her. I mean come on its pakistan other then ZAB we are never told who killed who. Zia/liaqat/ and now benazir.

We don't know who murdered JFK.
We don't know who murdered Zia.
We don't know who was behind the murdere of Muraza Bhutto.

We don't know many things, and we the ordinary people of this earth, will perhaps never know them. At least not in this world.

Peace.

[5Abi]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

According to Dr. Musadaq, the cardio pulmonary arrest occurs when when something with ALOT OF SPEED hits the body

yes i saw that video as well on CNN. "something with a lot of speed" could be either a bullet or shrapnel from the blast

[Prince_Abbas]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

As far as putting responsibility of this assassination is concerned, I think we need to realize that many things might be inter-related. Agencies? Lack of security by govt? Ch. Shuja'at?

Well, some of them might have played role, but what should be beyond doubt is that prime responsibility of this attack lies on EXTREMIST TALEBAN.

Anyone rejecting Taleban/Qaeda hand in this killing are actually supporting Taleban's heinous crime.

[Lusi]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

yes i saw that video as well on CNN. "something with a lot of speed" could be either a bullet or shrapnel from the blast

but they have changed the entire story, they are now saying that no foreign body had hit her but her head banged into the lever and caused a skull fracture. I wonder if that so-called fracture even shows up in the that x-ray (and God knows whose x-ray they brought for evidence)

[I_m_Kool]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

Its funny how professional authorities still aren't certain how Bob Woolmer died, even after conducting countless autopsies on his body every which way for over a year, yet everyone on this board knows for certain that it was indeed a Musharraf appointed sniper who killed Bhutto yesterday. Who needs criminal investigation units when you have experts like us willing to provide our expertise free of charge?

[Spock]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

Its funny how professional authorities still aren't certain how Bob Woolmer died, even after conducting countless autopsies on his body every which way for over a year, yet everyone on this board knows for certain that it was indeed a Musharraf appointed sniper who killed Bhutto yesterday. Who needs criminal investigation units when you have experts like us willing to provide our expertise free of charge?

I can say the same thing about musharraf apologists pinning the blame on osama the boogeymann

[Spock]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

but they have changed the entire story, they are now saying that no foreign body had hit her but her head banged into the lever and caused a skull fracture. I wonder if that so-called fracture even shows up in the that x-ray (and God knows whose x-ray they brought for evidence)

They have no shame really, lying openly like that, and changing their stances more frequently than their dhotiz.

[Lusi]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

Its funny how professional authorities still aren't certain how Bob Woolmer died, even after conducting countless autopsies on his body every which way for over a year, yet everyone on this board knows for certain that it was indeed a Musharraf appointed sniper who killed Bhutto yesterday. Who needs criminal investigation units when you have experts like us willing to provide our expertise free of charge?

lol ...now bring bob woolmer in without any reason. Musharaf's government has the transcript of the conversation b/w the two molvies, why it is so hard to crack down on them?

[danday_wala]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

Its funny how professional authorities still aren't certain how Bob Woolmer died, even after conducting countless autopsies on his body every which way for over a year, yet everyone on this board knows for certain that it was indeed a Musharraf appointed sniper who killed Bhutto yesterday.

LOL. Well said.

And besides, is the ex general so stupid to order this assassination. Especially when he knows that he would be the first one to be blamed for this?

[I_m_Kool]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

I can say the same thing about musharraf apologists pinning the blame on osama the boogeymann

Who is a Musharraf apologist here? Nothing would please me more than to see Mush hand over his reign of power to a competent leader (if there is even such a thing in existence in Pakistan).

However, the fact that terrorists have been publicly vowing to kill Bhutto makes a PRETTY GOOD case for them being the guilty party. If one is willing to disregard that or is not sold on the legitimacy of such terrorist organizations than that is a completely separate issue.

[Spock]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

Im kool, im not here to discuss your or anyone elses defence of musharraf... its simple, the doc said yesterday that the wound was clearly from something FAST entering her neck and the interior ministry yesterday confirmed all that stuff yesterday by saying she died from a bullet wound, so i dont trust them if they come out here todya and dismiss all that and said she got her neck fractured, quite simple.

[I_m_Kool]

Re: BB's death was not caused by bullets or bomb fragments

Im kool, im not here to discuss your or anyone elses defence of musharraf...

Why have any discussions then? If you are so sure about your superior deduction skills that you are completely unwilling to listen to counter arguments than why pretend to have any sort of discussions regarding the issue?

Anyways, now that you've mentioned your intentions, it would be foolish of me to continue on this discussion. Nice knowin ya'.

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Video of Benazir Shot

From the video it is obvious the shooter missed with. He was firing one handed and had no control over his gun. The bomb and subsequent impact killed her.

Anyway, the point is that jihadis as usual were involved.

[Iconoclast]

It was a Freak Accident

that killed Benazir, sort of.

This guy shooting at her was really close and he missed her 3 times. The bomb or sharpnels did not touch her, it was the metallic lever causing a depressed fracture of the skull.

I don't know how long it took them to take Benazir to hospital, but usually patients even of very severe head injury survive for hours. BB was dead when she arrived at hospital. The only way head injury kills more quikly is if the lower part of the brain called brain stem is injured which controls heart beat and breathing. But BB was hit in temple.

The only thing that cud kill her so quikly that i can think of is if she had a massive bleeding inside her head, that caused pressure on brain stem.

Its unfortunate that the doctors at the hospital only obtained X-rays and not CT scans that could show if she had bleeding. I dunno why they did nto consider it, may be it was too big an event for them to think rationally or they thought it wud be the job of forensics to determine the cause of death and not theirs.

I am not trying to advocate any conspiracy theory here, i beleive what Cheema said in press conference is accurate. Coz the whole event occured in presence of top PPP leadership and if she indeed had gunshots in neck and chest it would have been spotted by Sherry Rehman or Naheed Khan or others inside he car or by her family members prior to her burial.

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Video of Benazir Shot