So-called "authentic" books - Some QUESTIONS

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Some questions for shia friends:

How authentic are these books -or- how authentic do you consider these to be???

  1. Ibid
  2. Usool al Kafi
  3. Al-Kulaini, Al-kaafi
  4. Rijaal Kashsi
  5. Kashful Asraar

Lets just keep 5 of them for now[there are more…]remember I ASKED A QUESTION and I DID NOT made any statements regarding your beliefs in those books, yet!

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Take it easy.

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

2

Ibid?

3

waht are you possibly trying to prove watcher. It is quite obvious from your attitude that you really dont want to WATCH whats right.

good luck and make sure you take it easy

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4

All of them are great books BUT not as great as Quran!

P.S they are our books of hadith!

OUR LORD! WE HAVE INDEED HEARD THE VOICE OF A CRIER(MESSENGER)CALLING TO THE FAITH: "BELIVE IN YOUR LORD" SO WE BELIVED. OUR LORD! FORGIVE US THEN OUR SINS, AND REMOVE FROM US OUR EVIL DEEDS, AND CAUSE US DIE ALONG WITH THE VIRTUOUS

(3:193)

5

So, how authentic are they???

Here are some more:
6. Khomeni. Hayaatul Qutoob
7. Furoo Kafi - Kitaabul Raudah
8. Haqqul Yaqeen

There are many more, but after you have answered my question than I shall proceed with other related stuff!
Puglu remember I asked a QUESTION and have not made any statements. So chill out!

Take it easy..

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

6

just go ahead with ur stuff watcher..our Majlis of Imam Hussain is our darsgaah..it starts with Kalaam-e-Paak and Hadith of Prophet..we learn from our majlises ..but go ahead with ur stuff buddy

SHABEER AGER TERI AZADARI NA HOTI
MAZLOOM KI DUNIYA MAIN TARAFDAARI NA HOTI

7

Sherazz, I like to investigate things before I even think of believing. Now, do you want to help or not?

Why it so hard for you guys when I am trying to reach out and talk to you guys about your own books? Don’t you have confidence in your own books?

I wonder why I have not gotten soo many replies from shia friends on this BBS.

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I will go ahead with my stuff if you guys would cooperate!!! ;-\

Take it easy…

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

8

Not confident enough to talk about your own books dear shia brotherans?

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I am waiting for you to give me some answers so I would proceed!

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

9

Ook, I guess not. Ok here are some more questions.

Is it true according to your books that:

  1. Allah has a quality of Badaa(forgetting)?

BOOK which it is found in it>(1.) Usul Kafi- Babul bad’aa - Al- Kafi Vol- 1 -P283 India Ed. ]

  1. Imaams have the knowledge of the Unseen. ??

BOOK which it is found in is>.(9.) Usul -e - Kafi Vol 1 P225. ]

  1. Imaams can make Halaal- Haraam and Haraam - Halaal

BOOK which it is found in is>[Usul -e - Kafi Vol 1 P225.]

Lets keep it to those 3 things and see how much knowledge you have about your own books. Remember I asked a question(s). Make sure you know.

Take it easy…

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

10

now watcher first of all tell me this, where did u find these books? did u find this on the net? could u give me the url please..like i said Prophet knew the future also Imam Ali knew the future..u know shia have 14 masoomeen..they cant make mistakes even unintentionally..thats our belief..YES

so do give me the sites..cuz i dont think u bought our books

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and i dont know what u mean by halal haram..it would be nice if u tell me the whole thing..not just cut and paste one line from a book..thank u

11

Allah has the quality of Bada? forgetting? excuse me..again u just gave me one line..tell me the whole thing buddy..dont just copy and paste one line..tell me whats before it and whats after it

12

Now you speak. I am asking questions and not making statments yet.

WHy are those not your books?

So, when Allah says in Quran that only he(allah) has the knowledge of the unseen, what do you say about that?

QURAN Surah 64(at-taghabun) verse# 4. He knows what is within the heavens and earth and knows what you conceal and what you declare. And Allah is knowing of that withing the breasts.

Don’t worry, if bought them or not. Important thing is if you can varify what I am trying to ask you in a friendly manner. Thanks.

PS: I listed main points, why don’t you tell us what is in front of it and what is after it. Also, I am listing the references, its up to you to varify them.

I am asking questions and not making statements so don’t batter with me some harsh comments.

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited November 22, 2000).]

13

but i dont have the books..i want to know wether those books are online or not..how many people actually have sahi bukhari at their home? now if u really are pointing some things i would like u to tell me the whole thing..not just one line..WHOLE THING

14

So, in other words you are telling me: Its useless to debate with you because you don't even know what is in your own books? hahaha!!!

Here another verse:
**Surah 81(at-takweer) verse #24.

And he * is not a withholder of the [knowledge of] unseen. **

Only knowledge mohammad had was what allah revealed to him in quran.

Now prophet mohammad did not had any knowledge of Unseen, how can your imaams have it?

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----*

15

so first tell me where does it say in Quran that Allah told Mohummad about Imam Mehdi..yet u said Prophet told everyone that Mehdi will come
2nd dont laugh so much because u have yet to explain the whole thing

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when r u gonna tell me whats before it and whats after it

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16

Its in bukhari, the collection of sayings of Prophet Mohammad.

Its in your own books.

You are just avoiding the argument. Because you know you can't answer back when it comes to quran.

Answer the questions yaar, don't run away from your own beliefs. Come on! I thought you were a shia with knowledge of his own books. But, too bad I was wrong.

Back to the topic please, don't change the subject. Instead of agreeing with verse from quran and saying that your imaams do not know the unseen and they are wrong in that clame you criticise me and the verse of ALlah.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

17

watcher there are many books out there..i have not read word to word..i guess u have read all ur bukhari sahi and other books..infact u even read our books

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so my friend why dont u just tell me the whole thing..dont just write one line..why dont u just get it? tell me the whole story..i m sure u have read it right? or r u going to those anti shia sites and just copy pasting one line? next time tell me the whole thing and not just “God forgets”

18

Well!

Didn't Mohammad recieved "WAHI" from ALlah? Do you believe that your Imaams actually recieved the wahi as well???

Instead of supporting your clames with references you are here with your own opinion, which does not matter when we talk about islam.

Are you saying those are not your own books or they are your books just you do not have any knowledge of their corruption and they are contrary to quran? - like quran says allah has the knowledge of unseen you and your books say your human imaams have the knowledge of unseen.

You are unable to discuss Islam like it should be discussed with references and to be able to discuss it in a manner which will be healthy for the discussion.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

19

corruption? my books? i think u are mistaken..corruption goes well with sahi bukhari and sahi muslim ..theek hai?

i asked u many times but u never answer my question..why r u trying to avoid it watcher..u listed three things from our books..yes its true i didnt read the books..what does that prove?

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now for the last time dont just write one sentence..write the whole thing..i hope our books are more then one sentence long

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20

So, what I wrote is true your books do contradict with quran, right?

I never once mentioned bukhari, I proved your books wrong in the light of QURAN ONLY!

You wanna make this a shia sunni discussion than open up another thread. If you wanna keep it to Islam and your practices that contradict with quran than your most welcome.

There are many more stuff which is in those books, I only listed what I thought you would be able to digest and would be able to respond to, sorry to say I was wrong on that too. You are trying to change the sujbect here. We are talking about your books and how they contradict with quran!

You haven't read your books - it proves you are following them blindly. Without knowing that they contradict with quran. That is what it prove!!!!

[your books and quran] - not your books and bukhari.

Take it easy. :-\

PS: Hey maybe Islam is not your thing to discuss, huh?

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited November 22, 2000).]