i m not trying to change the topic
DO NOT JUST WRITE ONE SENTENCE FROM THE BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WRITE THE WHOLE THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
can somone please try to tell watcher this..i dont know why he cant seem to understand my point
What would that whole sentence prove? BTW: What if all of the sentences contradict with quran, than what? Since you have not read any of your books, you can’t varify if those are your books. I gave you the : Name of the book, the page # and the volume # - go help your self and read quran once in a while. You will see, how your “so-called” authentic books contradict with quran. [don’t ask me to come to you and show you how to read quran]
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif
You are have been destroyed out of your own argument.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
Yaar you take care, and take it easy.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----
[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited November 22, 2000).]
watcher u r really insecure and scared huh? ofcourse i will ask someone about the things u pointed out from the book…but since u have the whole thing with u..why dont u just paste it here? r u afraid if u paste the whole thing u will look like a fool?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
hudd hoti hai ..pooch pooch ker pagal ho gaya hoon..chanda paste ker do na
watcher , i really think you ought to provide sites (if any) so he can look up the books...we usually face teh same problems b/c we have so many authors (right and wrong) and it takes time to research....
sheraaz, far up, you stated that u belive that the prophet and imam ali had the power to know the future....but in teh quran it is repeated numerous times that only ALLAH , the CREATOR, knows the future..if this was soo important, teh names of teh prophet and h.ali would have also been mentioned in the quran...
as for mahdi..i've repeated several times that I dont believe all teh statements of his bckgrnd, name...i just believe in a 'recruiter' coming to re-unite the muslims....
plz. do continue
Watcher has said:
"The Prophet Knew that Imam mahdi was going to come"
Is this not a case of seeing the unseen?
Allah FORGETS the mistakes of a beliver(if he repents)so Allah knows but he pushes the mistake of the Beliver aside(almost like forgetting)!
Haraam-Halaal
After the Jung(I think of Khandak)Allah made haraam in to Halal(booty was allowed afer this battle and was haraam before the battle)
By the way this is NOT In Quran but from you hadith(Bukhari I think)
And we Shias say"Prophets and Imams speak only what Allah says to speak"
Remember All is from Allah and no one can do anything without Allahs knowledge of it!
OUR LORD! WE HAVE INDEED HEARD THE VOICE OF A CRIER(MESSENGER)CALLING TO THE FAITH: "BELIVE IN YOUR LORD" SO WE BELIVED. OUR LORD! FORGIVE US THEN OUR SINS, AND REMOVE FROM US OUR EVIL DEEDS, AND CAUSE US DIE ALONG WITH THE VIRTUOUS
(3:193)
Hi guys,
I visit this forum often but I’m usually a silent reader. but after reading this thread and a few others.. I have to make a few comments…
- Watcher - it really seems to me that you’re not there to ‘‘discuss’’ - you’re there just to cause trouble and prove yourself right ??? Yes of course what you belive in - you feel is right but what you can’t accept is that what others believe in - they know they are right too…
Like in this thread - you copy pasted a few statements that were meaningless - to understand and make a comment or reply to these statements - one needs to read the whole situaton and understand the context of it - and then reply correctly - Sherazz asked you soooooo many times - but you were totally ignorant to it and accused him of all sorts - why couldn’t you just paste the full statements - >>>??? what were you afraid of ? Being proved wrong ??
To debate Fairly - you need to reciprocate with the other party not play around..
Sherazz - Bro - you’re on your own most of the time - .. it must be hard to fight with such ignorant people…More power to you!!!
MS
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
Only knowledge mohammad had was what allah revealed to him in quran.
[/quote]
Watcher: How can you say this? Are you infering it. Is there any authentic religious scholar who subscribes to this statement of yours? I would imagine the status of the Prophet (SAWW) is far above than what you or I can ever imagine. Don't limit his capabilities.
Allah is the sole provider of ilm (knowledge), and He chose whatever he wished to give to the Prophet (SAWW). This may include knowledge about any future incidence which Allah informed the Prophet (SAWW). This means, that you and I can not determine that all the knoweldge Allah provided to the Prophet is in Quran.
This statement of yours is SHOCKING! I am quite disappointed. If you look over any authentic book of aqaid, you will notice many forecasts about the Ummah which were made by the Prophet (SAWW). These are not in Quran. Those are not made up (naoozbillah) by the Prophet (SAWW), rather they were revealed to him by Allah, but these are not to be part of Quran.
Many such instances relate to the state of the ummat in years close to qiyamat, arrival of Imam Mahdi (RA), arrival of Hazrat Issa (RA) and many other such matters. Where do you think these come from....?
Shah jahan bhai thanks for providing the details..and i hope it makes sense to everyone..i was just asking watcher to give me the whole thing but he wasnt willing to do that
memsaab thank u thank you for the support
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
i am not a scholer by any means..i have nothing against my sunni brothers..now if u look what pristine says it makes perfect sense to me..there is a difference between discussion and fight..i m human and somtimes i looser my control…wish i never did but oh well..cant be perfect u know..but i m so close its scary
Shah jahan I don’t give a damn about what you think. All I want and care about is QURAN. ANd clearly your hadiths books contradict with quran soo much.
I said: Your books point out that your Imaams can make Halal - haram and Haram - halal.
[Don’t give me “I THINK” - show some references with what you clame]
What is in our bukhari book? We are talking about your shia books and how they contradict with quran.
Off course Allah can make haram - halal and halal haram.
Mem, I understand you have sympathy for your shia friends. But, when something is WRONG in the light of QURAN than it wrong. WHen you do something that is contrary to QURAN you do not call it Islam! I don’t think, I caused trouble or called any names or insulted anyone. You can make excuses and label me with something bad, to make me look bad. That is all you guys can do when someone proves you wrong in the LIGHT OF QURAN.
Pristine, could you tell me what you consider MOhammad to be. Off course he is a prophet and we all should obey him. If you read my posts, I said Mohammad recieved “WAHI” from Allah. Anyway, I want you to tell me what you consider Mohammad was.
[shah jahan, don’t give me “I THINK” ok? [I don’t care and I don’t want to know what you think, in the matters concerning Islam. When you clame something is in quran or in hadiths books, show it. ok sir? ] Thanks.
Take it easy.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan:
**
Allah FORGETS the mistakes of a beliver(if he repents)so Allah knows but he pushes the mistake of the Beliver aside(almost like forgetting)!
**
[/quote]
naozobillah.. Allah forgetting.
What is more approriate is that is if the person repents.. then Allah forgives... thats it.. no things like he forgets..
anyways.. almost forgetting still aint forgetting.
[This message has been edited by blackzero (edited November 23, 2000).]
Watcher, you talk a lot but never talk constructive.... I saw your posting re rassol(PBUH) did not know the ILM e GHAIB. Think watcher think, what was the first Wahi On Huzoor(PBUH). I mean was it not "Read and read with the name of God... and I have taught the man everything that he did not know.....and I taught him to write with a PEN". now watcher tell me here god is claiming to have taught everything that he didnot know, did it not include every ILM including ILM e GHAIB. and when God is saying that I taught him to write with a pen and he asked Huzoor(PBUH) to read, doesn't that tell you that Huzoor was not ILLITERATE.
I have been reading through the Usool e Kafi that you were talking about... but do you know so far I have NOT seen those sentences on the pages you refrenced . not even one. I am still looking and IF I find them I will post the answer for you Inshaallah. I don't think they exist in Usool e Kafi but god knows better. OH yes if you are intrested I can prove by GLORIOUS QURAN that your second kalipha made something haram that was made hallal in QURAN by the Allmighty and also by RASOOL(PBUH). I don't think you would want me to go there....
Wassalam
umm..pizza ur IMPLYING NOW!!!
it is said in the quran NUMEROUS times that ALLAH AND ONLY ALLAH knows GHAIB KA ILM>..no insaan can have this power....our prophet was a MESSENGER OF GOD, a HUMAN, with HUMAN LIKE QUALITIES, HE WAS NOT GOD, with GOD-LIKE QUALITIES...how simple can it GET???
jeez.
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
Pristine, could you tell me what you consider MOhammad to be. Off course he is a prophet and we all should obey him. If you read my posts, I said Mohammad recieved "WAHI" from Allah. Anyway, I want you to tell me what you consider Mohammad was.
[/quote]
This is wrong. You said "Only knowledge mohammad had was what allah revealed to him in quran". This view is not accepted by ANY muslim scholar (whether shia or sunni). Prophet (SAWW) had ilm (knowledge) provided by Allah, which may not be available in Quran. This has been 100% accepted by all muslims since the time of Prophet, to the khulafa-e-rashideen, tabaeein and taba-tabieen. I don't know if this is the sort of knowledge you have gleamed from the books of Mr Wahab. I did not have had the pleasure of expanding my knowledge based on the books of Mr Wahab or anyother scholar who follows the Wahabiyaa school-of-thought.
What I think of the status of Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) is besides the point, and not the issue here.
I want you to look at your statement, and reconfirm, what you meant by it.
[quote]
Originally posted by blackzero:
** naozobillah.. Allah forgetting.
What is more approriate is that is if the person repents.. then Allah forgives... thats it.. no things like he forgets..
anyways.. almost forgetting still aint forgetting.
[This message has been edited by blackzero (edited November 23, 2000).]**
[/quote]
Have You ever heard the expression Forgive and forget THAT is what I mean(the person forgives but not really forgets)
OUR LORD! WE HAVE INDEED HEARD THE VOICE OF A CRIER(MESSENGER)CALLING TO THE FAITH: "BELIVE IN YOUR LORD" SO WE BELIVED. OUR LORD! FORGIVE US THEN OUR SINS, AND REMOVE FROM US OUR EVIL DEEDS, AND CAUSE US DIE ALONG WITH THE VIRTUOUS
(3:193)
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**Shah jahan I don't give a damn about what you think. All I want and care about is QURAN.
**
[/quote]
So please leave our books alone If you only care about Quran!!
And the point of all this issss?
[This message has been edited by Girl Thing (edited November 24, 2000).]
Pizza, quran says in:
Surah 81(at-takweer) Verse# 24.
“And he* is not a witholder of [knowledge of] the unseen.”
Prophet Mohammad did not withhold that knowledge of the unseen which Allah had revealed in quran.
Pristine, read my statement above in this post.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
I have read sahi-bukhari and Muslim, and Allah is my witness I have not read any of the books of Abdul wahab as you said I have.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Shah Jahan so you admit that your books are wrong and contrary to QUran? I will leave it alone, when you say they are contrary to quran and that means you do not believe in quran…anyhow read quran.
Dear girl thingy, point is that shia books clame that their local Imaams know the future and unseen, when Allah says in quran that OLNY he(allah) knows the future. So, you tell me who is right ALlah or someone else?
Take it easy.
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----
[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited November 24, 2000).]*