Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
JazakAllah =)
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
I read this story on http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Guru_Nanak_in_Mecca . I do not know how true it is or not. But it makes an interesting point -
Boarding a ship at Surat, Guru Nanak reached the Arabian coast. From there, he walked on foot. He reached Mecca in due course.By the time he arrived in Mecca, he was very tired. His feet were sore. He needed rest. So he lay down to rest himself. He knew quite well that no Muslim would lie with his feet towards the Kaaba. But he wanted to draw the attention of the hajjis, so that he could teach them his wisdom.
So, he lay down with his feet towards the Kaaba. All who saw him lying thus, began to shout and cry in anger. They gathered around him. They shouted at him. They threatened him. One of them was angrier than the others. His name was Jiwan. He kicked the Guru and said, ‘Who are you? Why do you lie with your feet towards the House of God?’
The Guru did not show any anger. In fact, he was never angry with anybody. He smiled at Jiwan. In a calm, sweet voice he said to him, ‘Brother, don’t be angry. I am very tired. I need rest. I respect the House of God as much as any one. Please turn my feet in a direction in which God or the House of God is not.’
Jiwan took hold of the Guru’s feet. He dragged them in the opposite direction. Then he lifted his eyes. He saw the Kaaba standing in the direction of the Guru’s feet. He turned the Guru’s feet in another direction. The Kaaba was seen standing in that direction. Jiwan dragged the Guru’s feet to this side and that. He dragged them round and round. The Kaaba was seen to be going round and round. It was always, in the direction of the Guru’s feet. His feet were always towards the Kaaba.
Jiwan and the other hajjis were all filled with wonder. Jiwan let go of the Guru’s feet. The Guru got up and said, ‘Don’t you see that God’s House is in every direction? I tell you He dwells in every place, in every heart. He is in your hearts. He is also in mine.’
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
^^^ Very Nice post Narayan, thanks for sharing.
Sri Hari is manifested in entire Cosmic Universe....and Universe is absorbed within him..including all animate and inanimate!
Showing respect through action in materialistic ways, like bowing down or keeping feet away are important for mortals like us, but the Enlightened souls like Guru Nanak who Realized Him- The Supreme- the The Absolute Truth are liberated from fear of unknown, for who knows Him, nothing remains to be known!!
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
Creative imagination… I can see similarities between traditional propagandists, be they among muslims or non-musims
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
Jiwan took hold of the Guru’s feet. He dragged them in the opposite direction. Then he lifted his eyes. He saw the Kaaba standing in the direction of the Guru’s feet. He turned the Guru’s feet in another direction. The Kaaba was seen standing in that direction. Jiwan dragged the Guru’s feet to this side and that. He dragged them round and round. The Kaaba was seen to be going round and round. It was always, in the direction of the Guru’s feet. His feet were always towards the Kaaba. ’
With due respect and no offense, next time try to support your views with some scientific evidence, before sharing anything like this. Had there been any such incident there must have been some sort of indication, mark, or sighs seen near the Kaaba. And such incidents are never hidden from the historians and people who have witnesed them. Unfortunately the only witness of this incident is respect GURU nanak jee himself. I have nothing to say against him, but at times people might mis interpret the words of the leaders.
GURU jees words of God being every where is logical. But we can't justify the incident the way it is mentioned in the book, about the kaaba moving with his feet. I am sure people who wrote it misunderstood it.
You might not know but no non-muslim is allowed to enter the boundries of kaaba. Though it might be possible that some non-muslims might see kaaba in a dream before accepting Islam
I am a construction engineer myself and I have seen Kaaba with my own eyes, from very close, and I have not found any signs near the foundation of Ka'aba which might indicate any cracks occured in the foundation due to the movement of kaaba. When any building moves from it's places it does causes damage to the ground on which it is constructed, which should have been prominant, and you are talking about movement of kaaba in all directions. I know there has been alot of construction after that, but still there must have been any such thing mentioned in the old books by the construction engineers of that time.
Living in 21st century, such incident wouldn't convince many people when we have absolutely no scientific or historic evidence to prove it.
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
Ka'bah is a man-made structure... it was recently rebuilt in 1996 from May to October... before that, it was rebuilt during the time of sultan Murad nearly 400 years ago, and has been rebuilt several times before.
Many people have also claimed to have seen flying saucers... we usually call them schizophrenic or delusional. Why is it that in religious matters we take strange "occurances" to heart?
GURU jees words of God being every where is logical. But we can't justify the incident the way it is mentioned in the book. I am sure people who wrote it misunderstood it.
Or deliberately created such legends... this has happened to many belief systems including Judaeism, Christianity, Zoroastriansm, as well as Islam...
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
Narayan, no Muslim believes that Allah/Jehovah/Yazdan/Ahura/Ishwar/WaheGuru lives inside the Holy Kaabah. The Kaabah is respected because it is the sight of the first house of worship ever built on earth to worship the One God, The Creator, The Sustainer and the True Deity of all creation, it is sacred because of it's association with The Lord our God.
Allaah the High and Exalted says in the Holy Qur'aan (intrepretation of the meaning):
...so wherever you turn yourselves or your faces there is the Face of Allâh... (2:115)
If Guru Nanak believed that no object on earth was sacred and worthy of respect then why do the Sikhs literally worship the Guru Granth Sahib? Why do they wrap it in a dozen fine silk cloths and put it to bed? Why do they fan it whilst it's being read? Why do they have seperate heated/ac rooms for it called 'baba ji da kamra'? Why do they put it on a big pulpit? Why do they 'matha tek' (prostrate) before it?
Would Guru Nanak or Sikhs find it acceptable if I placed the Guru Granth Sahib or a portrait of one of the Gurus at my feet?
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
As for the Islamic viewpoint... From what I know it is disrespectful and not allowed to urinate or defecate whilst faceing or showing ones back in the Holy Direction but I have not come across evidence to forbid the pointing of feet in that direction whilst lying down, in fact to the contrary the early Muslims would climb on to the roof of the Kaabah and chant the Call to Prayer but then again that's not the same, so nobody take my post as a religious edict because I'm no scholar, Allaahu 'alam.
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
In addition to what PP said, I have a very simple test for everyone to analyze the Truth.
If anyone wants to know any incident which happened related to a pious leader of their respective religon, to be true or not, just remember that no pious person would say or do ANYTHING to prove his point by de-grading his opponants.
If the Sikh think that Guru jee was a pious man, than let them realize that this incident is misunderstood, according to what I mentioned above.In my views Guru jee never intented to do or say anything which de-grades anyone else's sacred place.
NO human can ever find even a single example where any Prophet degraded anyone else's sacred place or beliefs for proving his point, because they don't need to. The truth shall prevail anyways in the hearts of those who want to follow the truth. And same goes for all the other pious people of the past.
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
NO human can ever find even a single example where any Prophet degraded anyone else's sacred place or beliefs for proving his point, because they don't need to. The truth shall prevail anyways in the hearts of those who want to follow the truth.
exactly!
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
I hate to state the obvious, but this is simply not the line of reasoning that is appropriate. If you look at the examples of Hazrat Ibrahim (Razi Allah), he destroyed the statues of gods of people of his time. It was done to prove a point. In addition, upon conquering Mekkah, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) ordered destruction of all idols from kabbah, even though he ordered that no one from Mekkan is forced to change their beliefs and they all have amnesty. Point is, where Allah Tallah wants to make a point to separate truth from false beliefs, prophets, upon His command have taken on and destroyed symbols that represent falsehood. It doesn't matter if those symbols are a sign of respect for someone else.
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
I had in mind the example of the Prophet (saw) destroying the statues, while I said :
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[quote=]
NO human can ever find even a single example where any Prophet degraded anyone else's sacred place or beliefs for proving his point, because they don't need to. The truth shall prevail anyways in the hearts of those who want to follow the truth.
[/quote]
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The reason was that the Prophet (saw) was not trying to prove his point by destroying the statues but removing the statues from the House of Allah where those statues never belonged but were placed after it's invasion by the ignorant people.
About the case of Hazrat Ibrahim (as)) He destroryed the statues which the worshipper were claiming to be Allah, or helper of Allah. He was trying to convince them that such statues can not even help themselves when harmed. When those worshippers didn't listen to them, he destroyed those statues in order to show them that your claim is wrong.
The above two incidents are the ones alot of historians agree with that it happened like that.
In the case of Guru nanak saying to people that Allah is everywhere, He is agreeing to the fact that Allah exists and he himself is not Allah and at the same time he is trying to prove it by something which doesnt makes sense due to the following reason. (Other than the scientific reasons I already mentioned above)
Just for the sake of discussion if such an incident even happened, when Guru jee said that Allah is everywhere, than what was he trying to prove by moving kaaba in the direction of his feet ? There can be either of the two things he wanted to prove.
He didn't do it intentionally, but this act was done by Allah, to prove it to people that they should not worship the kaaba but Allah who is in all directions. IF so, than why didn't he preach them about Allah ?? If he did, than why are his followers not practicing it, or why is Allah not mentioned in their book.
He did it intentionally to prove it to people that Allah is everywhere. In that case what was the relation of kaaba moving with his feet and Allah being everywhere. Was he trying to prove that he himself is the God (nauzubillah) If so, than why didnt he say this in the book ? make sense ?
From the above two cases it seems that even if it was either of the two cases, their still is a confusion in what he said and what he wanted to prove by giving an example of which he seems to be the only witness.
Thus it is an offense towards the belief of muslims by giving such an example in their book, of the holliest place of muslims and still not proving any point clearly
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
Definitely, it should be our priority to give 100% respect to Qibla, regardless it is a myth or not.
What the Arabs and casual muslims do with Qibla or Quran, should not be our purpose to follow.
DO RESPECT GOD HERE
GET RESPECT FROM GOD HEREAFTER!
simple!
yeah, but only in two directions in a straight line.
1- the direction which has shortest distance (in a straight line) and
2- the exact opposite direction; which will be longest one to reach Qibla ultimately.
All other directions will never approach Qibla, while travelling in a straight line.
So, only 1st case occurs for saying the prayer or for the feet, facing Qibla.
And if u scroll this earth slightly from top and then bottom for view from man’s head:
Same result: He cannot reach Qibla while travelling in any other direction (in a straight line) except the above two cases.
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
I hate to state the obvious, but this is simply not the line of reasoning that is appropriate. If you look at the examples of Hazrat Ibrahim (Razi Allah), he destroyed the statues of gods of people of his time. It was done to prove a point. In addition, upon conquering Mekkah, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) ordered destruction of all idols from kabbah, even though he ordered that no one from Mekkan is forced to change their beliefs and they all have amnesty. Point is, where Allah Tallah wants to make a point to separate truth from false beliefs, prophets, upon His command have taken on and destroyed symbols that represent falsehood. It doesn't matter if those symbols are a sign of respect for someone else.
StP has given a very nice reply for your post.....may Allah reward him for that.
Just want to add another thing About Ibrahim(AS)....he destroyed all the idols except one(biggest one)....when his people asked him why did he destroy the Idols ,he replied, ask him(the biggest idol).
Prophet Muhammad(SAW) destroyed all the idols in Makkah after everyone became muslim.
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
With all due respect, you are only looking at a disectional projection… If you are talking about “straight line”, let me help you with with that"
In the above diagram, suppose the physical building is on the right side of the Earth and a person is standing on the left side, it is obvious that it is impossible for the person to face the building once the building is past the visible horizon and not in the line of sight of the person, due to Earth’s curvature, thus the person is facing a point in space/sky instead of facing the building. This explains “the shifting of your face towards the sky” in 2:144
Similar diagram where the person is at A and the building is at B and the line of sight is AC
The main problem is traditional translations which leave certain words untranslated… if we translate those words, the meaning speaks for itself:
جَعَلَ اللَّهُ الْكَعْبَةَ الْبَيْتَ الْحَرَامَ قِيَامًا لِلنَّاسِ وَالشَّهْرَ الْحَرَامَ وَالْهَدْيَ وَالْقَلَائِدَ ذَلِكَ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَعْلَمُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ
God has turned/made the BASE to be the HOUSE, Restricted/Sacred, to enforce for the people, and for the month of restriction/abstenance, and for the donations/offerings, and for regulation; that is so you know that God knows what is in heavens and what is in Earth, and that God is aware of all things.
First off, ka’bah is a base for something… that I have explained in an earlier post. Second, for the life of me, I do not understand why traditionalists translate Hadya and Qalaabada as Sacrificial and Garland animals… what does that have to do with us to “know that God knows what is in the heavens and Earth”… the only logical translation is offering/charity/donation to the people (not to God) and regulation (training) in society. If they are that wrong about these two words, what else can/cannot they be wrong about?
The “qibla” or the target/goal would be the institution/implementation of hearing and obeying from al-qur’aan, and to be oriented to the truth AT ALL TIMES, and not towards a physical building.
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
Thanks for the comments, but I would like to mention here that it was understood in my post that man would be watching/traveling along with the earth regardless of earth’s curvature.
It is quite obvious that man cannot see the building/target from his standing point and he would have to follow the straight path to approach his target either vision-wise or either by traveling.
Here “Straight Line” is not being used as pure mathematical term.
It is being used as:
Once the right direction chosen, simply man would need to turn his face in the selected direction, regardless of his sight is in the air or down @earth.
yes, off course!
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
zero~zero~seven
While we are on mathematics of it, I think you may be incorrect. Since Earth is like a melon clearly there are more than two paths to reach something on the opposite side of the round. From East, West, North and South. And unless you are some place in Pacific which is exactly opposite of Mekkah, only one of them will be the shortest distance. The other three will still get you there, but they won’t be shortest. Plus you are incorrectly assuming that every line MUST pass through either the North or the South pole. Once you rid of this incorrect assumption, you will realize that there are in fact more than 2 straight lines to Mekkah. Think about it and then we can chat more.
Note for other readers
Although I must point out that this is just an esoteric discussion on geometry, and does not in any way muddle the conclusion that Qibla is supposed to be the direction of the shortest distance between your location and Mekkah, and most likely there is only ONE direction that fulfills this condition.
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
Once the right direction chosen, simply man would need to turn his face in the selected direction, regardless of his sight is in the air or down @earth.
The direction we are instructed to face is to the truth, not to a building... you seem to agree with that right? In that case, direction (or facing) is metaphorical and not physical.
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
http://qxp-in-u.blogspot.com/ [this is your signature hypnotix]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbir_Ahmed_%28writer%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quran_As_It_Explains_Itself
qxp links hypnotix and shabbir ahmed together…
Re: sleeping with feet facing makkah
My name is Mahmood, and I agree at many places with Dr. Shabbir (and it goes without saying that I disagree with him at many places also)… your point?
btw, there are several people who translate the Quran based on Tasreef, not just Dr. Shabbir