I didnt ask if they wanted to come to Pakistan... Nor did I ask how Islamic they are, I could give a rats ass about how Islamic they are.... Question is, do you even know what happened to these people, where they are now, how their lives have changed... I mean, when you fellow countrymen rape and murder your family member before your eyes, I bet that would leave atleast some lasting impression on you... But then, im sure they still love their bharat ma.
You seem somewhat oblivious... And I dont think you know anything for sure...
:), they would definitely, because they will get justice even though the time may be a little too long. I dont want to compare our justice system to pakistan's. :)
Extremism should be discouraged. The question what percentage of population in pakistan and India are extremist.
Do the govt. (central) drafts draconian laws that curtail religious freedom. Do u have the opportunity to choose. These are the questions to be answered, not chest thumping patriotism.
And our roots lie in West ...Muslim culture...Middle East...and our 70 % population also have roots from central Asia...Bukhara...Balkh...as all great warriors came from there...we the hell care about indian culture...sub-continents roots...and norms....we are tied towards our western border rather than eastern border .....!!!!!!!
OMG.. I don't know who to despise more the Hindus who like to pretend we're a break off from their country or my own brethren who have an inferiority complex in regards to Arabs...
We are neither Arab/Persian nor Indian, we are Pakistani and proud of it.
Pakistan has a history older than 1947 which is distinct from India, India just likes to propogate this false notion of a Ancient Pan-Indian nation and pass off the history of our region as its own, that is bull we were part of the same foreign empires (Nepali, Afghan, Perso-Turkic/Mughal etc.) not same country... South-Asian is just a region not a country... It's high time we reclaimed our history if for no other reason than to stop our enemies laying claim to it, all their north Indian culture/language is descended from Pakistani/Indusian culture, even their country's name comes from the ancient name of our country and its lifeline river Indus...
Our Western neighbours are our brothers and we love and respect them but I'm not claiming to be their ethnicicty because they're not better than us, they're our equals... We have our own identity in our homeland now even if a fraction of our ancestors did come from them.... Yes we should have political/ideological/brotherly unity with them, seperate Ethnicity shouldn't effect our relations with the because our worldwide Muslim Nation is multi-ethnic even though we have our own ethnic identity..
No,... this never puts the thing in perspective....you are hopelessly trying to degrade India by giving personal examples of drowning oneself in booze etc...
be fair, while reading the article....I guess writer wants to convey some broader message rather than what you thought.
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If the writer wants to convey that India has more tolerance thanwriter is living in fool's paradise, or she only knows India thru Indian movies or Kajrarey dance.
I am now watching STAR NEWS, who are showing footage of Hindu Rshtrik Sena activists with hammers smashing all the cars outside starnews office, ransacking the place, coz they are not happy with coverage of star news on some muslim dude marrying a hindu girl despite that he converted to hinduism.
You have a chief minister who says trghe victims of Gujrat massacre were responsible for what happened to them.
Laws in India are cosmetic… Ground reality is what counts, thats not chest thumping, thats just simple observation… For as bad as Pakistan might be, we have never had mass genocidal riots on the scale that Indians have had over and over. How practical are your laws when they still result in mass murder?
Your own govt reps have been on record saying the Muslims should watch their back and behave themselves… And who has been punished for these crimes? NO ONE! Thats Indian Justice
Oh and the victims, well they are still homeless or traumatized, unable to return home, and yet, you know nothing of them..
Your satisified with your laws, good for you.
Your justice is a joke… Justice after ten years or even fifty years is worthless, most responsible will by then have been able to find a way to squeeze out of it… Waiting for justice in cases of genocide is not worth it. I can guarantee you that if these people were in Pakistan, they would not have suffered this way because this sort crime would never occur in Pak.
They were able to bring those responsible for the 93 bombing in Mumbai, but then people like Modi, who by many analysts had large part to play in this murder are not only given a clean slate they are allowed to be reelected… As for percentage of extremists, I dont know, I would love to find out though… If your riots are anything to go by, then your extremists would be in the many thousands.
I love Pakistan and all…but seriously, what do you call the shootings/bombings that were practically a daily occurance in Karachi in the late 80’s and early 90’s? And what about all the anti-Ahmedi riots that went on in the 1950-60’s? Many Ahmedi families had to flee Pakistan in those days…and far from punishing the instigators, the government bowed to their demands and went on to officially declare Ahmedis non-Muslim.
I love Pakistan and all...but seriously, what do you call the shootings/bombings that were practically a daily occurance in Karachi in the late 80's and early 90's? And what about all the anti-Ahmedi riots that went on in the 1950-60's? Many Ahmedi families had to flee Pakistan in those days...and far from punishing the instigators, the government bowed to their demands and went on to officially declare Ahmedis non-Muslim.
The riots were never on the scale of the Indians...
I know many many Ahmedis... Do you any? My uncle is an Ahmedi, and a brigadier.. Half my family is Ahmedi and they have never had any problem in Pakistan. Another Uncle was was in the Army and fought in the 1965 war... Ahmedis have had problems, but its no where as bad as anyone immagines. In my village Sunnis tried to take control of a local Ahmedi Mosque, but the police were there to keep the peace and eventually things cooled down...
Many Ahmedis have used this discrimination to their own advantage, more then a few gotten US residency based on cases that were either fabricated or blown out of proportion... Althogh there are many genuine cases in Pakistan, its nowhere near as bad.
Many Ahmedis would still perfer to live in Pakistan if they had the chance.
So while the Pak govt has cowered and bowed to pressure, there is no anti Ahmedi conspiracy...
The shootings and bombing in Karachi were politcally motivated, and its was a war between two opposing groups... Not a govt sponsored murdered and genocide.
Beta…people like you should always know one thing clearly. Never try to prove your country or your house is better than the other house. It looks ugly and if you do that, even a small mistake that happens done by some idiots in your house becomes very big. and you know very well, you are in a place where your country is not liked. I hope you got that and think very well before starting such threads…and yes, I am a patriotic indian and you may dislike me, but i dont care.
The riots were never on the scale of the Indians...
I know many many Ahmedis... Do you any? My uncle is an Ahmedi, and a brigadier.. Half my family is Ahmedi and they have never had any problem in Pakistan. Another Uncle was was in the Army and fought in the 1965 war... Ahmedis have had problems, but its no where as bad as anyone immagines. In my village Sunnis tried to take control of a local Ahmedi Mosque, but the police were there to keep the peace and eventually things cooled down...
Many Ahmedis have used this discrimination to their own advantage, more then a few gotten US residency based on cases that were either fabricated or blown out of proportion... Althogh there are many genuine cases in Pakistan, its nowhere near as bad.
Many Ahmedis would still perfer to live in Pakistan if they had the chance.
So while the Pak govt has cowered and bowed to pressure, there is no anti Ahmedi conspiracy...
The shootings and bombing in Karachi were politcally motivated, and its was a war between two opposing groups... Not a govt sponsored murdered and genocide.
I've met a number of Ahmedis in the US, including many families that fled during the 1953 riots in Lahore. While I'm happy to hear that your family has done well in Pakistan and hasnt experienced any discrimination, that kind of anecdotal evidence is fairly worthless in discussing national trends. Some members of my extended family stayed in India following Partition, and have done quite well for themselves...many of them have become senior judges and parliamentarians. When I talk to them, they swear up and down that they face no discrimination as Muslims in India, and that they much prefer living in India to being in Pakistan or the West. Does that mean that the carnage that Muslims faced in Gujarat or Bombay is any less relevant?
As far as Karachi is concerned, many would argue that when the army was called in to root out the MQM in the early 90's, what followed was essentially a government sponsored attack on all mohajir people, regarless of whether they had been involved in the MQM's terrorist activities or not.
Well ask our Christian friends if they feel Pakistani lovin' on the west coast.
Okay, and when did I say Pakistan was a rose garden?
As for Pakistan being mostly bigoted with respect to India...as I said, in India one must go out of their way to show they are a nominal Muslim before being accepted among the power brokers.
One looks at the elite of Pakistan and they see a wide variety...some very religious others not so much or not at all. In India, I am hard pressed to find a devout personality amongst influential Muslims. The distinction can't be one's orthodoxy.
Is Pakistan any better with respect to minorities? I dunno...but then, that wasn't the point of the article now, was it?
I've met a number of Ahmedis in the US, including many families that fled during the 1953 riots in Lahore. While I'm happy to hear that your family has done well in Pakistan and hasnt experienced any discrimination, that kind of anecdotal evidence is fairly worthless in discussing national trends. Some members of my extended family stayed in India following Partition, and have done quite well for themselves...many of them have become senior judges and parliamentarians. When I talk to them, they swear up and down that they face no discrimination as Muslims in India, and that they much prefer living in India to being in Pakistan or the West. Does that mean that the carnage that Muslims faced in Gujarat or Bombay is any less relevant?
As far as Karachi is concerned, many would argue that when the army was called in to root out the MQM in the early 90's, what followed was essentially a government sponsored attack on all mohajir people, regarless of whether they had been involved in the MQM's terrorist activities or not.
In the end, if all is ancedotal, then minorites are fine in Pakistan and same goes in India.
The riots of Pakistan were never to same level as those of Indias...
As far as Karachi is concerned, the MQM were far from helpless victims.
The reason extremism and jahaaliyat is running rampant in Pakistan is simple. Its the lack of education.
India doesn’t have these problems, because they value education. And poverty is not an excuse to be an uneducated git over there. They’re doing a lot to educate their people. Meanwhile, even if I wanted to and if I had the means, I can’t open a friggin school in a Sindhi village without having to deal with village politics, the threat of some wadera stripping me of my dignity, and the threat of a local village maulvi running after me with danday because I am allowing girls and boys to sit in the same schoolhouse. Not to mention the threat of getting robbed and murdered on the truck ride to the village.
Even if you want to help in Pakistan, you’re faced with obstacles. Its like people don’t want the average man to come up in life.
The problem is that you have no idea of what India is.
The minorities in Pakistan does not have a voice. Much of the atrocities are unreported.
Riots can happen because of few idiots on either side of religious divide. U need two hands to clap. There is only one hand in Pakistan (too many muslims compared to minorities). This is not the case in India. If there is no mass riot does that mean that Pakistan is a very secular and its minorities are living very happily. It just means that the minorities are just overwhelmed by the numbers of Muslims in Pakistan and keeps quite even when atrocities are committed. They basically raises their voices through appropriate channels than start a riot on their own. This again is not the case in India.
Just imagine a hindu bombing a place in Islamabad killing around 100 to 200 people . Wouldnt there be riots in Pakistan. I would not be surprised if the whole of hindus in Pakistan would be thrown out of the country or murdered.
U highlight gujarat riots to point out intolerance, but then think about the last one year where no. of blast killed hundreds of Indians, after which no major riots broke out.
Thousand of years of mistrust and prejudice cannot be washed away in 60 years. Mistrust only deepened with the creation of Pakistan.
Believe me, for most part, muslims in India coexist with hindus. Muslims are not stopped from practicing their religious duties. They are not stopped from wearing burquas and even sheria law is given to them to choose.
Judiciary does not even exist in Pakistan, so who would probably go there. As I have already said, judicial system in India is slow, but what is important is that it is free of prejudice and independent of legislature. People believe that justice will be done even if it takes some time. Around 15 people have been convicted in Gujarat riots and the trial is continuing. Majority of people of India rejected Modis ideology. But unless people of Gujarat decides he cant be thrown out of the state. He cant be put on trial as there is no direct evidence that he is involved. There are also many other leaders, many of them muslims who should be also tried but ofcourse their political clout and lack of evidence makes it impossible to stand judicial trial.
what kind of proof do u require. Are u a deputy.:)
Besides my son these are opinions and not proof. I hardly see any substantial unconditional proof of whatever being said here.
and who has courage to stop them.....my dear ...do not forget that 1000 years who ruled sub continenet.....
Majority of people of India rejected Modis ideology. But unless people of Gujarat decides he cant be thrown out of the state. He cant be put on trial as there is no direct evidence that he is involved. There are also many other leaders, many of them muslims who should be also tried but ofcourse their political clout and lack of evidence makes it impossible to stand judicial trial.
and do not spread folks...that "Butcher of Gujrat" even still not allowed to enter the USA....its your habbit andt and your government habbit to take vote in the name of religion like A K Advani took votes in Rath Yatra in 1992 after destructing Babri Mosque....and now BJB i deceiving the Hindu fanatics in the name of Ram Mandir......
and think very well before starting such threads…and yes, I am a patriotic indian and you may dislike me, but i dont care.