Skeletons in the Closet

TLK, the ladies did not make this into a "men bashing" thread. If you scroll up you'll find that the girls provided EXAMPLES of double standards. Providing examples is not the same thing as "men bashing". It's an effort to support your ideas with experiences. The men aren't being blamed here. Rather, it's more the family unit (the root of society) which is being addressed for perpetuating these double standards. Discussing an issue does not make a woman a "feminist." You're a man.....and YOU YOURSELF agree that our society has double standards when it comes to the genders.

Re: Skeletons in the Closet

well ready or not, bashing is over due! yes as painful as it may seem, it is loooong over due..i would love to see action in conjunction with the bashing...simply because..

a) men and women are equally responsible for their society! and if guys and their parents believe its ok for one gender to commit wrong, they are doing plenty harm for the next 40-50 years.
b) Its a poisonous way of thinking, i am not sure why anyone would think "its just the way it is"

c) hypocrisy or double standard, is not unfair, its plain jahalat.

lets remind men that they have not stood up for the "unfortunate" events in centuries...they have accepted them in return for what?

TLK, sorry hon but the ladies are right because in this case it was the guys who twisted the thread around and tried to make it go where no lady has gone before :nahi:

Re: Skeletons in the Closet

The ppl who reckon we should put up with it cos 'it's just the way it is' wouldn't be saying that if they were at the receiving end of it..

Just as racism isn't acceptable neither should double standards in our culture be either.

Re: Skeletons in the Closet

well redvelvet ur mixing quite a few things up there,,,sum i agree wv n sum i disagree wv...if a girl drinks, its jus as bad as if a guy drinks from religious point of view but i wud expect parents to be more strict with the girl. u know y,,not bcz of religion or bcz its more wrong but bcz of different consequences for girls n guys of the same actions(sex, drinking, staying out till late etc) n associated societal pressures n consequences.

if the consequences r different for gals n guys, then d parents reactions or d detterents dey put put in place shud reflect that. Therefore, parents wud be stupid if they were not more strict with the girl bcz a gal is more likely to get drunk n get pregnant, gets raped etc or gets reputation. A guy he got drunk n had sex outside marriage, equally bad sin but less worldly consequences. So, girls have to be more cautious as there r things attached to them sleepin arnd n drinkin.....it makes common sense that parents shud be more strict wv their galz.

on the other hand, when it cums to women's rights such as when a marriage breaks down, girls get d blame etc, das wrong or forced marriages or freedom to education or other injustices etc. I think there shud be zero tolerance for dat sorta behaviour and things need to change, quick.

Sum of d inequalities r der bcz asian culture is patriarchal n values/morals r set by men but sum of it is different because men n women r inherently different,,,,u av to accept sum natural difference like u wnt see a girl making a guy pregnant,,,feminist wud still argue wv god y u made us go thru this for nine months n men dint deal wv it... but,,,for now...just get on wv it!

Re: Skeletons in the Closet

i think we are past counting the skeletons....
men may have sold their soul to the devil. How else can they be at ease, "living" with their eyes wide open to the painful realities in our society! ie.. living in oblivion...
reminds me of "sins of the fathers"... a never ending cycle

Re: Skeletons in the Closet

Yes, but I think both guys/girls should think twice before they engage in activities that will result in them having to HIDE it from their future spouse. If you can't be upfront about your past with the person you are going to marry, then you shouldn't be marrying that person. A relationship is built on trust.

Re: Skeletons in the Closet

So, some things, as mentioned can be less malignant than other kinds of skeletons. To say these things are just how they are, shrugs what can we do about it - seems to be a pretty sore attitude, no?

I'm betting most guys out there - Pakistani at least - are not virgins by the time they get married. I'm sure premarital sex is pretty rampant (which leaves one to wonder how many "innocent" girls out there are also having premarital sex, because these guys aren't screwing doors after ripping out doorknobs). So what is a community to do when you have a number of families facing the consequenes - ex. STDs being passed on (which mind you, the kids of that union have a chance of being infected), children of previous unions popping up at your doorstep (How many of you gentlemen are looking forward to the "Hi Dad!!" when you open your door next time? Aww, cute, na?), and the emotional baggage that goes with previous sexual unions (girlfriends, ex-wives, etc popping up at your door demanding child support).

That kind of throws a damper in the family unit, doesn't it...

yes ME my friends, got screwed by girls many time.. stories sunty sunty subah ho jaey gi......Girls who did moronic stuff.. then few years later wanted to fix things.. I tell you few stories some other time
Ramadan meen to khas toor per larkion sy door rehna chaey
hmmmm...I know many, many amazing women. But If I talk about them Girls here would get jealous. ha ha

I don't know... May be you are right.

And honey, you are one of the good ones.

Yes.

And true, its a cultural thing and not a religeous thing.

Re: Skeletons in the Closet

Red Velvet u r hilarious

i respect you for this.

itna ghussa

well, about the topic, Punching correctly pointed out that desi girls themselves disrespect women with a past.

Well said!! Well said!!

I think Shaz1 has made a fair point here.

Yes, is it more acceptable in our culture for men to have skeletons in their closet than women, unfortunantely

..And I think it is because the consequences are different for each gender that makes it so... I'm not agreeing or condoning men who have shaded pasts, but I think Aunti-jees are more "accepting" of these guys than they should be.

It's wrong and these Aunti-jees need to wake up and smell the coffee. If these Aunti-jees knew that a prospetive daughter in law would refuse a Rishta on the basis of skeletons in the closet, then I believe they would be less accepting of their sons sordid behaviours leading to shaded pasts..

It's down to the parents to teach their children, regardless of sex, right from wrong. Isn't that what raising an Islamic family is all about? It sure as hell isn't about allowing the sons to do whatever they want and then letting Allah punish them for it.

Re: Skeletons in the Closet

I want to know, what is it that parents do wrong ... is it even the parents fault if their son grows up, starts sleeping around, and doesn't see anything wrong with it, or even fornicating with a married woman? Something had to have gone wrong in their upbringing for someone to grow up and engage in these sorts of immoral actions. They don't have any morals .... but how does that even happen in the first place? Could it be that boys in our culture are sometimes given God-like statuses within their families so they don't think there are any consequences for their actions? If the parents did a superb job raising their son, would he have turned out like this? I don't want to blame anybody cause ultimately it is your own decision to engage in these kinds of sins ... but I can't help but think that someone along the line should have taught this person the difference between right and wrong.

Re: Skeletons in the Closet

I also think (and hope) that our generation (Am I an Aunti-jee? I'm nearly 30) will be less accepting of men with shady pasts... So all these teenage "bad-boys" out there that think they can get away with having their cake and eating it; think again..!

This is another Thread/Topic all together and one well worth discussing.. Might be an idea to start a new thread Mehnaz..

Re: Skeletons in the Closet

Pretty much. The general trend tends to remain that a man's honor/reputation, is upheld/generated by the actions of the women they are related to. So his indiscretions don't really matter, but everything mishap on the part of a woman is scrutinized and focused upon.

Feminism is the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes. That seems pretty Islamic to me...so... I don't see why you would consider it a bad thing.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, how are men and women inherently different? What do you consider makes one a man, or one a woman? Why do you consider that women are more vulnerable than men (and why do you consider this to be a relevant point to the subject of this thread which is asking if its more acceptable for men to have hidden past deeds but not women)?What exactly is does this vulnerability entail? And if we are more vulnerable, would it not be because our culture perpetuates this notion and instills this belief in us?

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Capitalism.. is an economic policy. Equality means that all are equally held accountable for the same actions (among other things). Giving preference to forgive based on genitalia is discrimination at it's highest form, and Allah does NOT make a distinction in punishment OR prohibition for zina for men OR women.

No. These aren't the rules of the world. These are the rules of a highly partriarchal, shame based society where women have less status than men. Many cultures do not share in this prejudice.

Why should we stop complaining? Why should one not complain when there is such blatant injustice? If you are convicted of a crime you are innocent of, do you not appeal? Do you do nothing in the face of genocide, because you as one person can't change it?

Yes, we can change it. We rebel against the social norm that is not only unislamic, it is in violation of what would be basic rights for human beings. We have one cause, to end injustice against women (which again, is in the spirit of Islam). And while change has not permeated Pakistan to a large degree yet, we have changed a lot in the west. It is ONLY when people stop trying that they fail. I'm not sure if it's pure laziness, or simply not caring that would cause one to not try.

God also asks us to hold every person accountable for social ills, regardless of sex. God does not say that it is worse for a woman to sin than for a man to sin, nor does God say to favor the son over the daughter. So why disagree with God?

What do you want to educate people about? What do you think feminists are trying to do other than educate? You seem to flip flop around on your opinion of this. And forced marriages are a SYMPTOM of this social disease. When you elevate the status of men, you devalue the status of women. Unless men are held equally accountable for all misdeeds as women, and until we respect women and men EQUALLY, these problems will always remain.

Don't merely seek to put a bandaid over the wound and not treat the underlying infection. Otherwise, it will never go away.