I think those ladies are fussy..coz they can be fussy..after all...they have all the money they need..probably have their own house and car as well...you see it's a trade off...and the fuss is due to that very dilemma...do I want a married life?..if I do he should be "perfect"...else why compromise all that I have now if I'm going to be dissatisfied later.
Yes it is kind of odd that a female can technically have children at puberty but they are waiting until double that age until they are getting married.
Since you asked for the reason why it is so, in NA as compared to the east, I think its fair to say that in the east, parents always tell their daughters they cannot do things like go out, and other things we all know etc, UNTIL they get married, and over time it just builds up in their minds that marriage is their key to independance, and so if a girl in the east goes for higher education in the east and waits longer to get married, half the time it is because nowadays more and more males are going after educated females instead.
On the other hand, in the west such as NA, it is stressed to females that education is the key to their independance and this thought instilled in them sends them to school for a very long time and they end up making big careers for themselves, earning a good living, and do not really have any appeal or interest in getting married until after they are succesful, in their late 20's early 30's or so, and they feel something is missing, that they then seek marriage; by this time however, it has become increasingly difficult for them to find a suitable partner as psychologically, males tend to favor younger female.
Just my opinion I've developed from reading several articles, summarized as much as possible =)
okay cattie, here is the bitter pill
people are unrealistic in what they want, who they will accept as a mate. The perfect person they have created in their mind is too detailed and they cant distinguish between teh must haves, and nice to have's in a person.
They will focus on teh negatives of a person, or the requirements that the person does not meet rather than all the requirements that the person does meet.
I have several friends, guys and girls who are in that situation. I have frankly given up on trying to hook them up even if they ask me to introduce them to people now.
for this one pal of mine the girl does not just have to be good looking, she needs to have a very specific type of look, very specific family background i.e. some major family in pakistan who has moved here and is among movers and shakers, girl needs to be all social and well integrated into mainstream as well as desi community, has gone to an Ivy school, very specific ideas about personality..
Its not that he has not met girls who have met all those requirements, but then they did not meet his requirements for looks, they were stunning, but not the right look.
then this other pal of mine, she is looking for the same as this guy is looking for, but for her the guy must be into arts, be all macho and atheletic type, but loves opera and classical music..has to have a very certain type of look. blah blah blah
Both ppl in question are average looking, one is an Ivy grad and the other is a doctor, I have gone as far as to tell them that what is to say that this idea person would nto like them because as a pal i hafta tell them that they are nice ppl and all but dont really have model looks.
yes, careers are important and yes finding the right person is important, and yes being independent one is not dependent on marriage or anything..
but.. how does that explain the scores of successful people, who are independent, who have theirown lives, their own interests and have been happily married?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
okay cattie, here is the bitter pill
people are unrealistic in what they want, who they will accept as a mate. The perfect person they have created in their mind is too detailed and they cant distinguish between teh must haves, and nice to have's in a person.
[/QUOTE]
I agree that unrealistic standards and ideals are another reason why so many desi men and women are single in NA; as I wrote earlier, it's not the only reason.
It's pretty simple and has nothing to do with the "Pickyness" of the girls
Girls in the US/canada can not or will not marry out of their culture, aren't given the freedom to meet someone on their own (go out and date or even just hang out in areas where they could potentially meet someone). There is also very limited cultural acceptance if the girls were to find someone and convert them which leaves them stuck with a finding a guy from their culture and religon.
Men do not have the same rules/limits. Men have cultural and religious leeway to Marry OUT of their religon and culture. Further, men are able to and often go back to the home country to marry a girl from there which is difficult if not impossible for a girl to do
Thus these trends decrease the pool of available men which is why there are more women.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by amelie: *
Further, men are able to and often go back to the home country to marry a girl from there which is difficult if not impossible for a girl to do
[/QUOTE]
Your statement above is simply not true. I know many families who took their girls back home and married them off. Furthermore, those husbands are happily employed in the states/UK and helping raise a family with the ladies in question.
Originally posted by amelie: *
**It's pretty simple and has nothing to do with the "Pickyness" of the girls*
I did not focus just on the girls, but on the guys as well.
*Girls in the US/canada can not or will not marry out of their culture, aren't given the freedom to meet someone on their own (go out and date or even just hang out in areas where they could potentially meet someone). *
agreed, thats a 3rd reason.. not the only reason and does not cancel out the other reasons. a combination of them is at play.
*There is also very limited cultural acceptance if the girls were to find someone and convert them which leaves them stuck with a finding a guy from their culture and religon. *
I have a few cousins who married out of culture, one is married to a french guy, one is married to a brit, one married to an agha khani, and one is getting married to a good ol' midwestern boy.
Men do not have the same rules/limits. Men have cultural and religious leeway to Marry OUT of their religon and culture. Further, men are able to and often go back to the home country to marry a girl from there which is difficult if not impossible for a girl to do
2 points
1) guys have a similar pressure, especially if they will be in a situation where they will be responsible for their parents. If they would live their life away from the rest of the family then its less of an issue but if their parents will live with him at some point in time and the potential wife and the parents aree just miles apart in their faith/culture it can be an issue. I know a few guys who have walked away from otherwise good relationships because of that
2) girls import guys from Pakistan almost as readily as guys import girls form Pakistan. I have seen many cases of that. The guys situation may be more prominent but that does not mean its the same fort girls. And many times it is teh girls' own decision cuz guys from Pakistan are thought to be more "typical Pakistani male" mentality guys and thus incompatible.
a lot of the imported brides are for desi guys who may have moved here for college anyways, and thus has limited impact on the pool of available local guys anyways.
as i noted before, its not just one situation here, but all of the above, and maybe more which create this situation. less of a need due to independence applies, pickyness applies, inability to find good match due to circumstances applies.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Fraudz: *
*Originally posted by amelie: *
**It's pretty simple and has nothing to do with the "Pickyness" of the girls*
I did not focus just on the girls, but on the guys as well.
.
[/QUOTE]
I noticed but since the thread starter's focus was on girls, I chose to stick with that.
Otherwise your points in your previous posts about how in general both men and women are too picky is very valid and true. I think people really don't give some people a chance and can not over look small issues. It means that they pass up people that they may have really liked.
**Cat Woman, so many both guys
and girls who seem to be completely normal are
unmarried in North America because marriage
to them is what they are expecting to get and not
what they are expected to give. Marriage is a two
way street. And those who think just getting
married is winning a lottery, there's a lot more which
follows after the wedding that one must have
the ability to deal with in an
organized, fashioned, respectful manner, for the sake
of themselves as well as their partner. Having
lived with someone for all your life uptil that point
and then getting up and moving in with someone else
is never easy and shouldn't be expected to be easy.
Adjustments
have to be made which even in the nicest and most
civilized families is an intricate transition.
Guys and girls should both understand that there is no
such existence as a 'perfect match.' No one is perfect.
Everyone comes with a bit of flaws and bit of goodness.
Some with more, some with less. I've known folks
who married into general compatibility with their partners
having basic good morals and from there on they worked with
each other to help each other become better people.
And all these people who admit to having preferred
education over marriage, you guys can't possibly tell
me or anyone who has done that can't possibly say
that they had a good proposal and they chose to
let it go because they wanted to puruse education. C'mon
ladies. Even If you would have, your parents
wouldnt have let it go. Everyone knows the globally
expanding problem of both guys and girls not being
able to find proposals. Steep of the matter is that guys
and girls who have education, family background,
morals, values, personality and everything that a
person would look for in a spouse don't last unmarried
that long. You have to put out what you want in order
to get it yourselves.
It's not the good ones that finish last. They hardly
remain unmarried for long.
And since for some it's a personal choice and goal of completing
education first and putting so much value on it before
getting married, then why the high and yet still increasing
divorce rate in the muslim community. With all this
education, one would think that they would have the
endurance, the stamina and the knowledge to handle such
situations which end up in divorce otherwise. Give me a break.**
Well I have 2 female cousins who were very well educated, supporting themselves with good careers. They were in their early-mid thirties and no good rishtheys were coming anymore. Now by that time both of them had added on a little weight (my mother attributed this to being single). But they found their own husbands, both white, Canadian and converts to Islam. They are both now very happy, one with a daughter. At first some of my family members thought it was wrong to marry outside of our culture. But then some aunties said, "How else will they get married? They have to be happy too." I agree with that because my cousins tried for so long to go along with their parents ideas, to make them happy with a rishtha idea. But finally their parents caved in and are very happy now.
I was one month from turning 25 when I got married. My mother said to me, "Beti, just in time...you are almost over the hill." Thanks mom!! :p I wasn't getting rishthas that felt right. My mother was happy I was getting, "engineer and doctor" proposals...BIG DEAL. I told her if my soulmate is a car mechanic then that's fine with me. I was looking for my life partner. My mother wanted someone who would take care of me. Ofcourse I wanted to make my parents happy but I wanted to have peace of mind that I was making the right decision. When I met Aziz, I instantly knew he was the one. It was a strange feeling, a kind of calm in the storm. I think the young women of today are much more assertive in being sure to find THE ONE and not just settle for whoever is chosen for them. It is our life and we should have the right to our future. Here's my future.
[thumb=D]s720236_7170503.JPG[/thumb]
Amelie and Fraudz, you’ll laugh at this one then. I had a rishta this summer where the guy was fine as a friend perhaps but not marriage material for me whatsoever. I still continued to give him a chance though more so out of guilt and respect for my parents’ opinion than anything else. Despite his good career prospects and so on, what turned me off was…well the fact that there was a definite “culture gap” if you will…a very wide culture gap at that! He was recently from Pakistan while I was born and raised here. My family was in love with him, however, I couldn’t stand him even though he was a very nice person. So, call it pickiness or whatnot, I simply couldn’t see myself with anyone like him. It’s ironic because it’s experiences like these that teach us alot about ourselves–what we’re willing to tolerate in a person and where we would draw the line.
I have had rishtey where the guy is born and/or raised here and guys who have been here a few years from Pakistan, and the conclusion I have arrived at is that to me, I prefer someone who has been in the US at least a number of years and is a decent human being. Of course the good career, good education, decent looks are important too (perhaps more than I’m willing to admit) but why should they not be if I myself can offer someone the same qualities. Although granted the more real life experiences I go through, the more I realize the value of certain qualities in a person more than others.
Thats really interesting Mr. Frauds, a really good example of what my suspicions were all about. So its not only girls, but guys too, however I stress girls because the population of girls is greater, rishton ki kami hoti hai, and we have a lesser choice. Thats why it surprises me that achi khandaan ki larkian, khubsoorat and well-educated have not been grabbed. You explained it quite nicely. As much as Id like to say that I dont have expectations, I also have an ideal. Its really hard to get rid of, I think it gets worse as you get older. When I was younger, I was willing to settle for basically any nice guy that came along and considered a few guys seriously. Now that I look back, I wonder what on earth I was thinking as I would never want to marry them now, not because they are bad people, but because i dont think they were my soulmate.
sweetpie, saying no to a guy because he hasnt lived in the states all his life doesnt seem like a good enough reason to me. i know girls who have married guys from pakistan and there are always differences even if you marry a guy brought up overseas. im not pinpointing you, because i have similar ideals - guy should be brought up overseas. but if you think about it from a broader outlook, he should just be a good person, good muslim, caring, humble and respectful. why should he have to have lived in the us?
Amelie, cute pic :)
Catty, you read too much into what I wrote. It’s not that I think guys from back home are any less worthy of consideration; it’s a simple fact: there is a culture gap that tends to exist and it’s much more prominent than with people who have at least lived abroad. That is definitely what I have found to be true, personally speaking.
As far as intelligent, beautiful, goal-oriented girls not being “grabbed up” so fast, I’m sure you realize that if any of us had said yes to our very first rishta, we would no longer be in this dilemma! But that can work both ways; it can be taken as a positive or a negative view. Being grabbed up means nothing if all that means is having the title of being married for marriage’s sake only. I would much rather not be married than settle for a man who I know full well is not who I want for myself.
The down side of all this is that as we grow older and our horizons broaden by being more educated, career-oriented, etc., we tend to notch up our expectations of our “ideal” and it is very difficult to come down from that ideal image you have set in your mind. If anything, we become even more narrowly focused on our “perfect” spouse. The sooner women learn that ideal is about who you make the person out to be provided of course that they possess the core qualities you’re seeking, the easier it becomes. Compromise is definitely to be expected by both sides however be careful not to turn compromise into “settling.” As a woman, you need to know what you want in a potential spouse, what points you will compromise on and what your bottom-line expectations are. I think only exploring these possibilities and talking to the man being considered will get you possible answers as to whether he is “the one.”
But what is the cultural gap? I dont understand, surely if hes educated he should have a pretty good idea about what its like to live overseas and Im sure hed understand your perspective. The cultural gap issue doesnt strike me as a problem.
That is your opinion, Cats. I beg to differ based on personal experiences. Take for ex. my ex-fiance who was a London-born and bred doctor and although the distance issue finally did us both in, I must say he and I were generally compatible and there was chemistry there. Now, do I search for something similar? Absolutely. Not that the person I seek 1) HAS to be born in the West or 2) HAS to be a doctor, etc. but he HAS to be compatible with me on most levels. I’m stating my opinion here.
Yeah I know its your own opinion. Im just searching for the truth, finding out what others think and adding my own bit in. So why didnt you marry him?
Did I not say it was a distance issue?...geographic distance that is...relocation issue.
Yes very succinctly put.
Sp, my offer still stands. 