Sikh praising Islam :)

Society Religion & Philosophy
61

Mundeya, call it hinduvata or khalistani or whatever..I don’t care. I am trying to be rational with you but you are on the high horse of religion and not looking back.<<<

all you are doing is running from the subject.

From the last few posts I am getting the impression that you are admitting that your ancestors were Sikhs? That is quite a change because you always claimed to be descendent of some great mughal khandan who ruled for 1000 years or something. Welcome brother…give me a hug…and drink this glass of lassi…we will eat kebab while sip on some ghar di kaddi daru later…followed by makki dian rotian and saag…:slight_smile: <<<

you have any reasoning or logic left behind the claims of “forced conversions by muslims”? if you cant answer these questions then likes of rani and ranjeet have no chance. btw we can discuss this mushy and cheezy stuff in the general forum.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

fyi: almost all muslims had idol worshipping ancestors. Including prophet Mohammad (pbuh) all the sahabas and all the moghals etc.

**
Time for you to dig up some hindutva or khalistani books or wherever you have read about these forced conversions… “how was a converted sikh, hindu forced to follow the five pillars of Islam?.” how can a converted woman whose daughter has been raped by muslims preach Islam to her son. How could a person who is forced to read Kalima would go on to pray Namaz on his own? How could a person who is forced to do something he doesnt want to do… force it to his generations as well. **

i think it would be fair to answer these questions before riding ur horse of forced conversions and blaiming it on the illiteracy beghairati or cowardness.

[This message has been edited by mundyaa (edited August 16, 2000).]

62

I am trying to put forward my point of view based on my knowledge of the history and culture of Punjab. I am not trying to convice you of anything....it is a task impossible to convince someone of something that goes totally against his belief system and his existence as he knows it, although you are admitting some stuff yourself which is not bad.

63

mai kaiya laraee chado, and lets have a glass of lassi.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

kuri kamal hai!BALLEY BALLEY!!

64

Mundya states:
"Now can someone explain if there is such a thing as a forced conversion."

Extremist Islam is based on FORCE, without which it would crumble & die. You don't think that extremist Islam is a democratic process, do you?

Forced Conversions are a well documented part of Islam and one doesn't have to go far in time to be a witness:

1) Large numbers of hindus & sikhs in post- partition Pakistan were indeed "Co-erced" to convert. They were co-erced thru harassments, intimidations, extortions, murder, confiscation & destruction of properties & temples, etc. Under extremist Islam these acts against 'kafirs' are not only justified but encouraged.

2)Whole population in regions of Kafiristan in Eastern Afghanistan were forced to convert to Islam about hundred plus years ago. This region is now called Nuristan and its people Nuristani.

3) The remnants of these people called Kalash exist in parts of Chitral, Northern Pakistan. These groups have resisted pressure to give up their ancient beliefs and in the process lost most of their lands.

4) In southern Sudan large groups of inhabitants were kidnapped by Islamic militants of the North as part of war booty and confined or sold into slavery. Large groups were freed and re-united with their families when they were eventually 'purchased' from their muslim captors by Christian missionaries.

Readers interested in this aspect of extremist Islam should also research the barbarism inflicted upon the Hazara population of Afghanistan. Barbarism against women, in the name of Islam, have also been well documented.

65

You see guys the Sikhs praise the prophet of Islam and his teachings because of:

i) their tolerant nature and acceptance of other faiths.

This was the message in the 'reported' trip to Islam's holy sites. It was a message that Sikhs consider Islam as a brotherly faith and that we are close like brothers & sisters.

Can one of you: Masooma, Xtreme, Mundyaa, etc now PRAISE the Sikhs & Sikkism in the same vein?

First try and get our house in order before preaching to the others. I know that this concept of islamic superiority (?) has been brainwashed into you guys and reminded of it on a daily basis to COVER UP the blaspheme acts, just a few, as outlined in the post of Aug 19.

NOTICE it's their tolerant nature that prevented them from using this info and shoving it right back up your 'you know what'.

66

Ad-bull,

You see guys the Sikhs praise the prophet of Islam and his teachings because of:
i) their tolerant nature and acceptance of other faiths.

In fact, islam also accepts that there are other faiths so your inference that it doesn't is particularly vile and insidious.

Sikhism does not accept islam as a final religion, otherwise there would be no sikh religion. Sikhs accept islam only as far as we accept sikhism. Prove otherwise or shut it.

67

u see.. suppose one is not a muslim.. what it means.. he may not believe god is one like hindus or may believe god is one but has been sending prophets as parsis or sikhs or may accept that god send prophets but refuse that mohaamad is one as christians or mohammad is last one as ahmadies or accept that mohaamd is last prophet but say quran is not word of god.. whatever there are so many ways in which one can be a non muslim.

now if this non muslim looks at life of mohammad, he may look at it like any other historical person. He may like some of his qualities, may not like some others and even may write in praise of him as one may write in praise of Alexander or Napolean or Socrates or Einstein also knowing that they had flaws and need not be followed in toto.

I think this clears the confusion.

68

** this is what i want to know. how do u make someone follow any of these? Islam is a complete mode of life. How can someone live a life by obeying what Islam has to offer just cos they fear muslims. Here it is once again... maybe u will have better luck understanding it now.

  1. Kalima (one sentence to read privately)
  2. Namaz (read privately or in public)
  3. Zakat (charity given privately)
  4. Roza (fasting also done privately)
  5. Hajj (pilgrimage to makka, dependent on whether a muslim can afford to make this pilgrimage or not)

Now can someone explain if there is such a thing as a "forced conversion" how can a muslim be forced to follow these five principles of Islam? Lets take the example of this mother whose daughter has been raped..... agreed she will read Kalima for one day to save her life. Now how would she get the motivation to pray namaaz in her home without any force? how would she be forced to read Quran? Were muslims watching over her all day and all night long? No matter how much you would think thats the case its not humanly possible to do a thing like that.

YOU do not become a muslim unless you heart is filled with light of Islam. No one can force Islam on you..... no one can force another human being to pray namaaz or read Quran. For one day maybe yes.... but forever? and whats more unbeleivable is to force Islam on to its coming generations as well. **

u got something to say about this. if u got something to say about how did these mass forced conversions take place? Or like chanmahi u all also beleive that all sikhs and hindus were six year old when they converted... cos their moms got scared and since their sister was raped by muslims... so she thought it would be a good idea to raise her sons as muslims?

u must be one moron to beleive a story like this.... and no one has proved otherwise so u make ur own conclusion.

69

The Xtreme says:

1) "In fact, islam also accepts that there are other faiths.."

Really? Extremist Islam is stuck in the 'similitude' of the 7th century as such there is no acceptance of other religions.

Could you quote me the verses re: kafirs that were revealed in the 'similitude of the 7th century' and majority Islam never crossed over into the new world with new & relevant interpretations of those verses.

Evolve into the 21st century first and give up this talk about Islam is this and Islam is that. Islam is what you have made it ! You have made it into an EXtremist movement.

2) "Sikhism does not accept islam as a final religion, otherwise there would be no sikh religion."

Good for them and all those who reject Extremist Islam.There is no room in this world for a dogma that preaches hatred and will murder in the name of that dogma.

Ullu,

You call that clearing the situation!

Mundyaa says:
"YOU do not become a muslim unless you heart is filled with light of Islam. No one can force Islam on you..... no one can force another human being to pray namaaz or read Quran."

Mundyaa is a wahabi - the King of Extremist Islam. He knows what Islam is like in Saudi Arabai but still he wants to extol that kind of Islam.

The Taliban usually FORCE people into the mosque for the namaz. The people are also forced into dressing, grooming and behaviour according to the Taliban criteria. During Ramazan, there is usually a mob-like mentality re: restuarants that stay open.

What is this about reading the Quran? Your wahabi master call khattams, quran kwani bida or innovations! And, here you are talking about reading quran! Nice Going!

Anything goes and is acceptable under extremist Islam - lies, co-ercion, force, etc.

70

so im a wahabi if i question how did hundreds of thousands of hindus and sikhs were converted to Islam by force? o well i guess all the decendents of converted muslims are wahabies then too.

See this world was full of stone-age idol worshipping cults. Now if all of them were forced to convert and they became Extreme Islamists or Wahabies… then it again shows the power of Islam which gave them the will to spread the word in the world. We should all thank this spirit of Jihad, which is responsible for converting all of the idol-worshipping forefathers. So we can be extremist or non-extremist… but we still cant deny that if it wasnt for those Muslims you and I would still be worshipping some sort of lingum and who knows you would be the son of a devdasi.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

so before you condemn the extremist Islam think twice moron.

71

Ad---bull,

First you claim that Islam doesn't accept other faiths, despite the fact there is a clear injunction in the Koran that "there is no compulsion in deen (faith)" and also the historical fact that there are still vast majority of non-muslims in India despite 1000 yrs muslim rule.

so that's lie no.1 nailed.

Secondly, you claimed that sikhism is tolerant and accepts other faiths, but then when I pointed out that:

"Sikhism does not accept islam as a final religion, otherwise there would be no sikh religion. Sikhs accept islam only as far as we accept sikhism"

You did an about turn and hissed:

[quote]
Good for them and all those who reject Extremist Islam.There is no room in this world for a dogma that preaches hatred and will murder in the name of that dogma.
[/quote]

Why the double standanrds my slithery friend?

Time to shed your skin and come back as faceup.

72

Xtreme

1) Stop contradicting yourself !

When you quote:
"clear injunction in the Koran that - there is no compulsion in deen (faith)"

No compulsion means clearly that - Mind your own business! So, mind you own biswax!

If there is this clear injunction in the quran then, Why this extreme desire to shove your assinine (out-dated & racist) beliefs on others?

2) Our dear Xtreme also states:

"Sikhism does not accept islam as a final religion"

Are they or anybody else for that matter supposed to? Get real, Man!

Talking about double standards! Where is your quranic verse now: "No compulsion in religion"
or,
"To you your religion and to me - mine".

Islam is our beliefs and Sikhism is theirs.

WE can learn from them and they from us. Their religious leader already made that 'goodwill gesture' by going to Islam's holiest city; how about our mullahs going to their?

Mundyaa,

1) When you state:
"how did hundreds of thousands of hindus and sikhs were converted to Islam by force? "

In the same way as muslim women are FORCED to be second class human beings.

In the same way as the Saudia & Talibans shove/FORCE their extremist version of Islam on the followers.

In the same way as extremist Islam FORCED the Nuristani of Afgahnistan to convert.

etc, etc...

2) Mundyaa also states:
"you and I would still be worshipping some sort of lingum and who knows you would be the son of a devdasi."

If Allah is not all about compassion & tolerance then, that Allah is not Worthy of being Worshipped!

73

aD-bulmaliCk CONTRADICTION:

Ad-bul declared:

Quote no. 1:

[quote]
You see guys the Sikhs praise the prophet of Islam and his teachings because of:
i) their tolerant nature and acceptance of other faiths.
[/quote]

then upon being told that sikhs in fact rejected islam as a religion otherwise they would be muslims he said:

Quote no. 2

[quote]
Good for them and all those who*** reject*** Extremist Islam.There is no room in this world for a dogma that preaches hatred and will murder in the name of that dogma.
[/quote]

And thus the liars are exposed, their evil designs uncovered, truth smashing falsehood as prophesied in the Quran.

[This message has been edited by Mr Xtreme (edited August 21, 2000).]

74

If I praise someone, that does not mean I accept him/her in toto. For example I may praise Churchill for leadership in WW II and may be against his policy of colonialism as well.
It is just like if a girl prises u, she is not necessarily in love with u.

75

Xtreme,

It seems my message contained in the previous post got thru your thick skull!
That's good!

Now, you can stop posting your useless message - useless like your extremist version of Islam.

76

Ad---bullmaliCK,

I have edited my post so that it is easier to see the complete contradiction in your two earlier quotes. Look again to see the about turn you make from Quote no.1 to quote no.2.

I have no further comments to make in this thread, my exposure of your hypocrisy being complete. If you wish to make any other comments on islam's lack of tolerance you can contribute in the new thread I have started about tolerance between comparative religions.

Thank you.

77

Ullu,

Now, you're coming in loud & clear!

Regards,

Xtreme,
comparing the 'majority muslim's version' of Islam with progressive & enlightened people will always cause you grief.

It appears you did not learn anything from the outcome of the thread:Hinduism vs. Islam.

78

...Sister Masooma, thank you for sharing personal information...
...Guru Nanak's primary message was peace. Peace btw all of us. Sikh brothers, you draw a line, you no longer follow that message.
...People change faiths for the better...As a Pukhtoon, I believe that Sikhs are brave people and have code of honour...No one can convert them to anything...they'll rather die...
...People convert because they want to...Sadly enough, there is no in betwean when it comes to religions...Akbar tried to do the same...
...There are many colors to the rainbow, and it's incomplete without either one...We are differant and we should accept it that way...

79

what about the thousands of intellectuals that convert to islam, are they forced. If 2000 scientists , doctors etc convert to islam in year 98-99 form other religions then isnt their something great abt islam. If 2000 intellectuals convert to islam why doesnt it be equal entry to all religions like out of 2000 , 300 convert to hinduism 300 to sikhism 300 to judaism etc etc. Why is islam fastest growing religion in world.

if hinduism was fastest growing religion in world then i would certainly look into it but its not.

80

BlaDamunda007,

Your comments says its all:

"There are many colors to the rainbow, and it's incomplete without either one...We are differant and we should accept it that way... "

Wow! I really like it!