Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

Entire neighbourhoods were not machine gunned as you say, but sadly some innocents were killed when the MQM terrorists would lure the police into crowded areas and start firing away, knowing the constraints the police faced.

I don't need to read about it, I was there when it happened, and often saw these things with my own eyes. These are things you just don't forget. :(

will try to reply in more detail ltr on

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

oh I am sorry, machine gun bullets dont kill you as much as a bomb does, they just kinda kill you. you are only semi dead after yer head gets blown off by machine gun fire..

sorry my bad

Re: Shouldn’t Musharaf be hanged…

Get over yourself…

Re: Shouldn’t Musharaf be hanged…

http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home/opendoc.htm?tbl=RSDCOI&page=research&id=3ae6a85d4

some key points

regardng 1995 a far more careful distinction is now being drawn between `terrorists’ and the general public. The old practice of sealing off entire localities for days on end and hauling away almost every young man in sight had proved counterproductive, for obvious reasons.

Despite General Babar’s claim that security forces had adopted a new strategy of “target arrests” (IPS 18 Aug 1995; The Herald Aug. 1995a, 27), mass round-ups and military-style siege-and-search operations were still commonly used

**There was growing evidence that the Rangers and police were involved in human rights abuses, including beatings, extortion, disappearances, torture and extrajudicial executions of suspected militants in faked encounter killings

**In one operation on 20 August 1995, police and Rangers cordoned off the neighbourhood of Pak Colony, a mostly poor area of 400,000 in Karachi’s West district, and took away hundreds of people, mostly youths, some blindfolded **

read it… it was a disgusting operation, handled in a disgusting manner…screw MQM, it was a friggin gang of idiots, but the operation that was supposedly in place to save teh victims, further victimized the victims.

lets not just talk about the 95 operation, but also the one in 92-93 time frame. the extrajudicial killings are a well documented fact noted by UN human rihts commission.

so whether innocent people die because a bomb falls on their heads, or because they are caught in some full neighourhood seige, or because the rangers just wanted to kill mohajirs all as the same beginning and same end, i.e. a govt plan, and the death of an innocent person. how they go aout killing an innocent person may be diff, but lets not swee this under the rug.

People I know were picked up and beaten by these matric fail tullas, just because they happen to live in areas known as MQM strogholds and they fit the profile i.e. male b/w ages of 15 and dead..or soemthing like that.

The operations took place under a democratically elected PM and were operations against the citizens, so much so that it was among the reasons given by leghari as he dismissed the govt.

not my words folks, its United Nations Human Rights Commission.

so when u talk about ‘dictator’ waging war against his own country’s people and all that, and if some democratically elected Pm would have done it they woulda been lynched in 3 days, unless its BBs ghost sitting in London, you are wrong.

That operation was a nightmare, in how it was handled, how brutal it was, how people were treated by police and rangers, how it became an extortion racket for the cops…I coud go on, but please, dont kep me from you reading the UN report yourself and then telling me that our democraticall elected leaders were oh so good and could do no wrong.

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

Let's make it easy for you, a bomb dropped on a neighbourhood will kill dozens and destroy homes and the neighbourhood.

Unless dozen's of people are lined up and shot and house's shot down, which didn't happen, then you can't compare, as much as u may like

Re: Shouldn’t Musharaf be hanged…

yes, yes, I don;t need to just read from various sources, I was there, living in Nazimabad at the time. We know how sepoy’s from Punjab treat people in Sindh, I have experienced it my whole life.

No doubt during the operation, innocents die, as they always do, and these sepoys,hawaldar’s and colleagues often acted like dumb buffalo’s.

However overall, the operation brought back peace to Karachi,the pro’s outweighed the con’s, and we were once again able to walk the street and take the bus without worrying about ending up in an MQM torture chamber.

Re: Shouldn’t Musharaf be hanged…

I am speaking in terms of innocent lives lost. this campaign of terror in Karachi claimed many lives. dozens, hundreds…

and dozens of people were rounded up from their homes, and were not necassirily shot then but taken in custody and then mysteriously died. the staged encounters that were then used as excuses were a joke.

question remains, what ever happened to people who planned this and executed this. nothing.

Re: Shouldn’t Musharaf be hanged…

I have dealt with these tullas also, dealt withh them in shah faisal colony, dealt with them in gulshan, fb area, kda1, u name the place.
I have seen shareef familymen made murghas in front of their wife and kids and all..the humiliation they bestowed upon citizens of Karachi was among the lamest thing I have ever seen.

yes it brought peace in Karachi, like i believe killing the militant rats hiding in FATA would bring peace as well.

btw where were u in nazimabad, my dada’s house was in #4.

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

^ wouldn't that be a quite a blast if the two of you turn out to have been childhood buddies or even better one of you bullied the other for lunch money?

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

YOU SHOULD BE HANGED FOR SUGGESTING THIS!!!
HE IS A GREAT MAN FOR THE COUNTRY

Re: Shouldn’t Musharaf be hanged…

yeah but see i did not go to school in Pak until inter, and that was at PAF college (oh crap now TRD knows my military conection)

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

^ TRD never you mind this elitist mil.college snobs!

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

I dont think that is a problem. As long the person who is producing results for Pakistan, I am happy. Our legally elected leaders haven't done crap for Pakistan.

Actually we would have seen similar results because of the corrupt nature of both them. Half the money the Pakistani economy made would have gone to their european bank accounts and the other half would have gone to their relatives living in Pakistan.

Havent born any fruits?

What about consumer confidence rising?

Investment market continuing to rise. Last Year Dubai planned to invest 50 Billion Dollars on a new housing complex in Karachi. Mega Projects such as the Gwadar Port Facility, etc....

That very well could have happened. So we must thank our lucky stars that we have a military government who can take on these terrorists living in FATA and not have to worry about political ramifications.

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....


You wouldn't have said what you said had you thought of it as a problem :). Our legally elected leaders, yes they were cheaters too, but there was progress in their days too.

[quote]
Actually we would have seen similar results because of the corrupt nature of both them. Half the money the Pakistani economy made would have gone to their european bank accounts and the other half would have gone to their relatives living in Pakistan.
[/quote]
You are confusing yourself or you are admitting that military govt is indulging in monetary frauds just like 'elected leaders would have'.

[quote]
Havent born any fruits?

What about consumer confidence rising?

Investment market continuing to rise. Last Year Dubai planned to invest 50 Billion Dollars on a new housing complex in Karachi. Mega Projects such as the Gwadar Port Facility, etc....
[/quote]

Wait... define "liberal" policies, I thought consumer confidence, economic benefits are due to 'economic' policies.

[quote]
That very well could have happened. So we must thank our lucky stars that we have a military government who can take on these terrorists living in FATA and not have to worry about political ramifications.
[/quote]
Don't thank lucky stars just yet, however never cease to thank Allah for whatever we have.... andhon mai kana raja.

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

Like What?

The only Mega Project during the Nawaz and Benazir days was this Highway connecting Lahore to Islamabad and thats it. Even that was seeped in corruption

But the scale of corruption has been reducted. Corruption exists. I agree but the scale in which the government it self particiapted it during the Nawas/Bhutto days was unparalleled.

Well Lets See. 40+ new TV Stations. More Print Media. Removing the barbaric Hudhood Laws. Trying to stop honor killings and gang rape.

Those are progress. Its not perfect but its getting there.

Exactly. So we should Thank Allah that we have Musharraf as our leader.

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

Chanda, you were saying how Mush was good for India, which is why I asked that question, and youre now replying and contradicting your own (or your country's) stance about him being good for India. Think meri jaan, think.

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

Lots of industrialzation took place in Nawaz's first tenure, though it suffered due to quota system later on but a large number of textile and related industries popped up.

[quote]
But the scale of corruption has been reducted. Corruption exists. I agree but the scale in which the government it self particiapted it during the Nawas/Bhutto days was unparalleled.
[/quote]

Reduced? Could be, when Zia was in power people held similar beliefs too, corruption only got exposed after his death. I don't want to go into much details but I only see change of faces but acts haven't changed much.

[quote]
Well Lets See. 40+ new TV Stations. More Print Media. Removing the barbaric Hudhood Laws. Trying to stop honor killings and gang rape.
[/quote]

If I remember correctly there was restriction of opening media outlets in elected govts time. Yeah, Hudood law modification will win him laurels from around ... honor killings? what has changed?

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

What would be the purpose of hanging him? It would not bring any more good than at current state of affairs. Yes, Pakistan economically is doing a little better and with the coming of elections I hope some changes come for the better. Even though the current gov't will have alot of influence on the outcome.

by hanging him, some other power hungry army general/currupt politican would be replaced.

I just wish the coming elections could be a little more fair than previous ones.

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

Mere reality is that US places its thugs all over the world to get their dirty work done by them, Musharaf, Karzai, Husseni Mubarak, King Abdullah.....are just few in this long list of.......you see there will always be traitors to be found who will be willing to sell their mothers for few US $....so if Pakistani people like a leader like Musharaf, then I am afraid to say that they are a doomed nation.....and there is no hope for such a slavish and pathetic people.....

Re: Shouldn't Musharaf be hanged.....

^^ We will become doomed as a nation if we start listening to you