Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
THIS!! 
It’s sort of like the gun control debate…those that want to do harm and break the law will find a way to get their hands on the kind of ammunition that they think they will need. Regardless of the laws in place.
The same applies to attire. Those that want to hide their identity will find a means to do so.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
So the saudis force people to wear niqab/burka claiming it is a part of Islam.
You force people to take it off by banning it and claiming it is not a part of Islam.
Tell me what's the difference between you and the Saudis?
None tbh.
if the Prophet SAW didn't enforce a dress code according to you, then why are you enforcing one?
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
He asked to keep the face open so why are we putting a veil over it ? No one is able to answer this.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
He asked to keep the face open so why are we putting a veil over it ? No one is able to answer this.
Why does it matter as long as the veil does not impact anyone's life other than the one wearing it?
And by "we" to whom are you referring?
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
And I'm so happy someone posted that ayat (line) from the Quran. Please look up the various translations and research on whag Khimar is. It's a piece of cloth. Kind of like a dupatta. It would be like saying place your dupattas over your bosom area. Which means keep the area of your bosom covered, which Muslim women are mostly already doing with dupattas in Pakistan or loose fitting clothes in the U.S. And jackets and coats etc.
The ayat also designates an anatomical part - bosoms. Not head. Bosoms. Last time I checked your boobs were not pointing out from the top of your head.
The other way to be fair, to look at it, is that at the time khimar(cloth) was worn mostly on top of the head and so the verse implicitly but not explicitly asks you to cover the head. If we were not to know the history of fashion in the 6th century Arabia, we wouldn't know this and the verse would read, draw the cloth across your chest area as oppose to draw your "head cloth" across your chest area. But then other commentators write that Khimar just means cloth and even at the time was used in reference as a general term to pieces of cloth used for garments, kind of like how we use the term "dupatta" or maybe "kapra" today.
In the absence of any Hadith that shows Muhammad (SAW) punished women who showed their hair, I see no reason to cover my hair.
But that's not the topic here.
It's the niqab. Where there is a clear Hadith where Muhammad SAW asked that we leave the face open. So it is arrogance and unislamic for us then to cover our faces and therefore it CAN become law compliant with sharia actually that we ban this.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
PCG....you keep answering the wrong questions.....
Let's assume for a moment that we all agree with you that the niqab can be banned without violating anyone's right to freedom. Just for this discussion let's assume that you are correct.
What will that accomplish?
And what is the impact of those results on our lives?
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Better security. Criminals don't get to hide their faces. They get picked up on security cams, you can track their movements.
The niqab is being misused to the point it is causing harm and is of no benefit to anyone. I dont see that men rape less or harass less when women wear niqabs. Saudis jails are still filled with rapists and men who harass and violate women actually walk free ironically there.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Women don't get socially isolated as much. They are made to work on their facial expressions and body language when communicating with others and so this helps them integrate more. Less isolation and therefore less constant nonstop obsessing about religion.
And I don't know maybe some God D*** respect for our Prophet SAW?
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Women don't get socially isolated as much. They are made to work on their facial expressions and body language when communicating with others and so this helps them integrate more. Less isolation and therefore less constant nonstop obsessing about religion.
And I don't know maybe some God D* respect for our Prophet SAW?**
You mean just like you are showing respect here.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
few things here…
how do you know whom to track until AFTER they have committed the crime?
why would they hide before that?
and forget that…can you come up with…oh, don’t know…let’s pick a random number…5…yeah 5…can you identify 5 incidences where niqab has allowed someone to get away with a crime that took lives? (perhaps they have gotten away with other petty issues but let’s talk about the major ones cuz you’re truly asking for thousands of people to give up their right to dress in a particular way so it better be good.
Maybe they don’t WANT to integrate? As long as they don’t infringe on anyone else’s rights, why should we be able to infringe upon theirs’?
Do you truly believe that all niqabi women are constantly obsessing about religion?
Really PCG?
hmmm. let’s start at home and avoid using curse words in the same sentence… 
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
My curses are to those that are abusing the tradition of Prophet Muhammad by disobeying him with the niqab.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
LalMasjid. Their grand **** imam tried escaping in a burqa when he held people at gunpoint for crimes he accused them of without proof and without FIR's or due process of law and asked his female followers to beat people on the street with sticks.
The Al Huda girls who are brainwashed.
The girls who have escaped to IsIS territories and now investigators are having a hard time tracking their movements to prevent them from joining IsIS.
The California shooter.
The girls who have committed crimes in the name of Islam under ISIS or Saudi type regimes where they have tortured people and committed war crimes and we will never be able to identify them because of the niqab. See the recent NY times article on the 3 girls that escaped ISIS after being their torture inflictors. Even the Ny times article doesn't show their face, it will be hard to catch them or prosecute them in the future when eventually there will be Nuremberg style review of these cases as war criminals.
That's well more than 5 people my friend.
Disagree with OP's tone and approach to the issue - but i agree with some points.
It's not that the niqab is a security threat (it's really not =/ most niqabi women do uncover their faces for security, some are weird but not all)... it forces women to be on the outskirts of a functioning society. It really is weird when u are unable to see someone's face, whether that person is a student/employee/friend etc etc. Humans thrive on body language and facial expressions... i don't need to reference the thousands of studies on it here, google it.... this is how we interact. Maybe if we were created blind it wouldn't matter.
Aside from that... the woman herself is isolated. The argument of someone wanting to be separate... fine, what does that have to do with covering your face though? There are many other ways to live an isolated life. Also, I don't know of any other group that covers their face except for the KKK ... are there any other groups who cover their faces?
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Devil worshippers wear masks at their goat slaughtering sessions.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Haha another example is of the shoplifters (male) in Pakistan using the burqa to lift merchandise they can hide in their cloaks.
I don't live there and so my experience is limited but I've seen 2-3 cases of this in person lol. One team of ladies in Burqas stole designer wear from boutiques. Put the shaadi ghararas on under their burqa and walked out. And you know each shaadi Outfit can be like 1000s of dollars.
And then the dudes walking funny in Burqas and niqabs in the market. My make cousin noticed a few when he traveled there.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Banning is the wrong way to approach it, but I think that there should be better understanding in the family and overall community about this issue; I would also suggest that perhaps people who harass non-niqabis be ridiculed and/or prosecuted.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Are ski masks allowed? Can I walk into a lodge in Alps valley wearing a ski mask with a ski gear bag hanging from my back that is big enough to hold an assault rifle?
I have a Hindu friend whose from Rajhistan. Wife is an IT professional in USA, but to this day, when she goes back to India and in front of her FIL, she hangs a veil from her head down. It's a disrespect in their culture for bahu to show her face to her elder males.
Point is, if hiding face under naqab, mask, dupatta should be banned, it should be banned for everyone regardless of gender, religion, location. Doing it only for Muslim women is discrimination
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Interestingly, she makes zero arguments for banning it. Choosing instead to focus on lack of religious obligation to wear it. Even if that were true, what right do you have to tell someone what they should wear. And if you come up with some tortured justification for it, why shouldn't other people have the right to tell you to cover up?
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
LalMasjid. Their grand **** imam tried escaping in a burqa when he held people at gunpoint for crimes he accused them of without proof and without FIR's or due process of law and asked his female followers to beat people on the street with sticks.
So if the niqab was banned, he would not have used a burqa to escape?
Really? Is that the logic you're gonna go with?
PCG...think about it....he would have left hidden in any way possible. The banning of the niqab would not have prevented this incident at all. In fact, the niqab had nothing to do with how/why the lives were lost.
That leaves 4......
The Al Huda girls who are brainwashed.
First: Any evidence that they are "brainwashed"?
Second: Hopefully you have either attended the school or know someone who can substantiate your claim that girls are being brainwashed there.
Let me know if you haven't attended or don't know of anyone. I know of several ladies in their long-term program and graduates and I have attended some events there. I'm happy to give you first-hand information.
That leaves 3.....
The girls who have escaped to IsIS territories and now investigators are having a hard time tracking their movements to prevent them from joining IsIS.
So tracking these girls would be easier if they were not allowed to wear niqab? That's the logic?
What makes you believe that they would not have found some other way?
Tracking such girls to bring them back is one thing....but what makes you think that they could be prevented from joining ISIS without even travelling?
That leaves 2.....
The California shooter.
I can argue this but I'll leave you one for now.
That leaves the last one......
The girls who have committed crimes in the name of Islam under ISIS or Saudi type regimes where they have tortured people and committed war crimes and we will never be able to identify them because of the niqab. See the recent NY times article on the 3 girls that escaped ISIS after being their torture inflictors. Even the Ny times article doesn't show their face, it will be hard to catch them or prosecute them in the future when eventually there will be Nuremberg style review of these cases as war criminals.
First off.....I'm amazed at your optimism and can only say, "aap kay munh main ghee shakkar" when it comes to the comment on "Nuremberg style review of these cases"
Let's admit it....this last example is really a combination of Al Huda brainwashing, girls who have joined ISIS and CA shooter put together, right?
Nice try.
So where does that leave the count of examples?
One. And even that is yet to be confirmed based on some people's comments and observations.....
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
I stopped reading when you said you've happily attended Farhan hash's classes.
No more soup for you.