Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
41

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan’s burden?

Where is LEJ based? The hint is in the name of the organization and everyone knows the role of the organization in spreading terror in Karachi, KPK and Balochistan.

Shahbaz Sharif begged taleban to spare Punjab in 2010 (Naturally he was not concerned of other provinces as long as his own province was safe).

Shahbaz`s plea to `spare Punjab` | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM

42

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden

Iconoclast is a seasoned participant in this forum and perhaps he one time worked as moderator too, a good moderator. I have never seen hatred against Urdu speaking or any other language speaking people. By now you should understand the difference between mqm and Urdu speaking people. Just read his post again and offer comments on money laundering by Bhai in London, after all half million pounds in cash and expensive jewelry were recovered from his possession. Where did he get this huge amount and hot stuff?

Off and on bhai also talks about break up. A corrupt to the core of his heart, talking about rights and morals are the greatest jokes of the century.

43

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan’s burden?

^^^ Bhai, bohut say logon ko kuch nazar nahi aata hay … is liyea kay jub bhie Punjab ka naam atta hay … ahtajaajan Kali patti yea bazoo kay bajayea ankhon per bandh latay hain … tou aab kiya kiya ja sakta hay? :slight_smile:

When people talk about tax and mention tax collection by CBR at various places, they jump to GDP … but when one talk about collection of tax on basis of tax on taxable GDP then they close their eyes. :slight_smile:

When talk about terrorism across Pakistan and people mention Punjab based terror squads like LJ, SS, or Taliban terrorising all provinces of Pakistan , they could not even digest that … it seems they have not even heard of terror network known as ‘Punjabi Taliban’ not only known as biggest Pakistani terror squad within Pakistan working along with LJ and SS (both Punjab based), but they are also known by this name outside Pakistan.

Well … terrorism and Punjab goes hand in hand after Punjab gave gift to Pakistan in election as Prime Minister, only convicted terrorist Pakistan has known in politics … Nawaz Shareef … convicted of terrorism in 2000 by terrorist court under law of terrorism on hijacking plane to kill his assumed opponent and Pakistan army chief … His brother Shabaz Shareef regularly addresses terrorists reminding them that they and PMLN are same … and PMLN one of most influential minister ‘Rana Sanaullah’ rides with terrorists in election campaign and move with them as their most trusted friend.

Actually, love of PMLN and terrorist is such that … leader of LJ who was put in prison during Musharraf time, PMLN started stipend (wazifa) for his family from Punjab treasury and later got him released too … and not only that, but gave him official security personals to look after his security (all at the expense of Punjab treasury).

44

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

Meray bhai, it was £200,000 from Altaf residence (got inflated to £1000,000 by various anchors and news media to make some people happy). Actually, that money could be gift from Zardari ... who knows, as £200,000 for Zardari is like loose change as he has become billionaire looting Pakistan.

I think when one talks about money laundry and Pakistani corrupts, then £200000 means nothing as one should then talk about:

Zardari and his billion laundered pounds that he used buying properties throughout UK ... and billions of laundered pound Nawaz used to buy properties in name of his son again in UK ... and as for jewelry, there was none that came out of Altaf residence but yea I remember diamond reckless that 'Pakistani corrupt queen' bought from London Knightsbridge area using corrupt laundered money that she moved to UK. and you know what?

One billion pound = £1000,000,000 ... compared to £200,000. :)

45

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

It seems nobody is happy with 'Punjab"..... now what is the solution? what would people of other provinces rather have?? or prefer?? and the Urdu speaking crowd of karachi too........ what would you like to happen?

46

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

That's the reason why Altaf bhai has declared them his brothers.

47

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden

I know who I am talking to. I know him well enough. And i really dont need YOU to tell me what i should do,
Whatever Altaf does or not, it had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with what I said about some groups wanting independence from Pakistan. And i mentioned it because it is the same thing that author of the article implied.
Yet this icononoclast dude HAD to bring Altaf alone in discussion. He did not even mention groups which are much more open in wanting to get out of pakistani federation. He did not even remember mention people like GM Syed, Mumtaz Bhutto, and Zulfiqar Mirza ('Pakistan na khappay').

MQM and Urdu speaking is not the same. But there are people like him who abuse Urdu speaking people in the guise of abusing MQM or Altaf.

48

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

The writer of the article suggests that a lot of people of Punjab are not happy with the burden of Pakistan either.
You should ask this question from them first.

As far as I am concerned, I think empowerment local bodies system is the answer. When everyone has more say in their local affairs then they won't be putting blames of the ills to everyone else.

49

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

What about last 30-40 years? Was the ratio similar?

50

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

Where was Punjab when East Pakistan wanted its due share let alone this per capita nonsense? Frankly, I am sick of people who are all waaa waaa about Karachi not being capital anymore (remember naimatullah khan mentioning this "conspiracy" on geo once) and this utter nonsense of Punjab competing with Karachi. Lahoris should also face the facts that they would never be Karachi, since it is a cosmopolitan sea port that Lahore can never be and is on the air corridor in the way of Dubai. Karachi's landing fees were upped in the past just to make Lahore / Islamabad seem more accessible (PIA's planes get diverted to Lahore on flights god knows why) and I can see why Pakistan is f*C*Ied up. Instead of developing multiple cities or ports like gawadar or making smaller provinces with LG system and newer, smaller cities as capitals, we are still going to be stuck in this ch****** if I log back in in the next 100 years. Take your pick on what is wrong with Pakistan here.

51

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

Switzerland and Austria are land locked counteries. is Karachi or pakistan any better then these two? sick of such hateful and idiotic reasoning.
slothful only will rely on such resources.

52

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan’s burden?

where is alqaeda based ? probably yeman. why America bombing on every single corner of the world?

where is PPP based ? how shamelessly have they done damage to whole country with corruption? should i say Sindh have done this damage to country? no, because i am not racist.

DI khan jail attack is intelligence failure for you, you are not even ready to accept it as failure of kpk govt. but operating of Lej in Karachi from Punjab is a “fact” for you and Punjab is responsible for it.

53

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

Punjab bashing is fashion , it evolved after 71 's debacle .

.the fault lies with the Punjabis themselves, there devil may care attitude and not putting the records straight allows other to spin doctor and spew hatred for them .

now let me see..

1947-1958 Civilian Rule .... around 8-9 Priminister , .... 5-6 of them Bengalis .
1958-1969-71 Ayub Khan and then Yahaa Khan .
1972-1977 Z A Bhutto
1977-1988 Zia ul Haq
1988-1999 2 Times Nawaz Shareef a Kashmiri Mohajir living in Punjab ...and 2 Time Benazir Bhutto
1999-2008 General Musharraf
2008- 2013 .... first Zardari ..... and now Nawaz Shareef...

..where is the Punjabi in it ... ??

... now the Argument of Army domination ..

of the 14-15 COAS's .... only two are/were Punjabi ... Asif Nawaz and now Kiyani ...

about sacrifices...

there was no division of India... rather it was the division of Punjab and Bengal only .......so with present pakistan ..... ONLY Punjab was divided.

and i have been quoting these figures endlessly ... let me repeat again..

13-14 lac were killed during 1947 .... 10 lac of them were Punjabis .
14.2 Millions were forced to migrate .... 9.2 Million of them were Punjabis ... 3.2 Million of them were Bengalis .....then after Aug 47 ....... 1.2 Million Sinds educated middle class was forced to migrate..... now sum them up and figure out the rest ..

.... the reason is Punjabi 's intellectual own callousness , regarding it ... Punjabi does not speaks Punjabi ..rather he speaks urdu ... from Iqbal to Faiz .... all great URDU names are Punjabi ..

... to me there are two three reasons for this ... Punjabis callousness... will discuss them if the debate turns into appropriate direction ...

... Bottom Line .... Punjab's shoulder was USED by other .... and the fault lies with the Punjabi
himself. ..... and Punjab and Punjabi has suffered the most ..... yet spin doctoring of history , hiding of facts , distortion of truths ,,....in short Murder of history ....did not allowed it to be highlighted .

54

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan’s burden?

I hope you have heard about the term Punjabi talebanwhich includes groups from JEM and LEJ? While operations have been carried out in KPK, Punjab government has shied of tackling the elements in the province on the premise that they leave the province alone. If LEJ (which has been provided a safe haven in the province) carries out activities else where, wouldn’t Punjab’s name come in the destruction of other provinces? Why is it that army operations can be carried out in Karachi, Balochistan, KPK but not Punjab?

Some information regarding these groups:

**Punjabi Taliban: Driving Extremism in Pakistan
**

“Punjabi Taliban” a growing threat for Pakistan](http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/30/us-pakistan-militants-punjab-idUSTRE64T0QT20100530)
**
Keeping mum about the Punjabi Taliban
](http://beta.dawn.com/news/790215/punjabi-taliban-behind-karachi-attack-says-rehman-malik)Punjabi Taliban behind Karachi attack, says Rehman Malik**

These are some topics discussed in the same forum during the past 5 years:

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/299569-militancy-the-punjab-connection.html

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/428379-sharifs-harbour-taliban-in-punjab-what-really-they-are-up-to.html

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/371622-pakistan-taliban-taps-punjab-heartland-for-recruits-la-times.html

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/359989-nwfp-for-army-action-in-southern-punjab.html

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/436194-punjab-government-supporting-militancy.html

55

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan’s burden?

There are reasons why smaller provinces have grievances against Punjab. Being the bigger province, Punjab needs to address them and take the provinces forward.

During the past 60 years, Punjab used resources of other provinces while the provinces where they were being produced were kept deprived.

This is the well head price for extraction of gas in the country:

I’ll commend the previous PPP government for altering the NFC award and introducing the 18th amendment whereby giving priority to the provinces producing the resources but it seems PMLN is not happy with that. Call to change gas-sharing formula - DAWN.COM

Pakistani army is predominantly Punjabi, therefore some in the smaller provinces call it Punjabi Army (this needs to be changed). Its good that during the past few years the army has started diversifying.

Why operations can be carried out in other areas of the country other than Punjab?

Why Wali Khan, Bugti, Hakimullah Mehsud & Altaf Hussain are traitors but not Malik Ishaq and Masood Azhar?

56

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

..who declares them traitors .....

certainly not Punjabis .... rather the URDU press , or nazaria pakistan key theykeydars ...including the followers of Musharraf ... .... toeing the line of a CONSTRICTED national narrative ....

57

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

Perhaps if people had tried to take to task the elite and establishment before, that "71 's debacle" could have been averted. To avoid further such debacles, however, Pakistanis could do much worse than to have sincere discussion about the legitimate rights of smaller provinces and any impediment there might be to achieving those rights.

[quote]
.the fault lies with the Punjabis themselves, there devil may care attitude and not putting the records straight allows other to spin doctor and spew hatred for them .

now let me see..

1947-1958 Civilian Rule .... around 8-9 Priminister , .... 5-6 of them Bengalis .
1958-1969-71 Ayub Khan and then Yahaa Khan .
1972-1977 Z A Bhutto
1977-1988 Zia ul Haq
1988-1999 2 Times Nawaz Shareef a Kashmiri Mohajir living in Punjab ...and 2 Time Benazir Bhutto
1999-2008 General Musharraf
2008- 2013 .... first Zardari ..... and now Nawaz Shareef...

..where is the Punjabi in it ... ??
[/quote]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck then it probably* is a duck. The ethnic makeup of military dictators hardly makes much difference first because they are *dictators and not elected representatives of people and second because they are a product of and crème de la crème of what's largely a Punjabi-dominant Pakistani army. The Sharifs are born and bred Punjabis with some distant kashmiri background; not many people really regard Nawaz as a "Kashmiri Mohajir" (whatever that means).

Since Zar-dari had essentially zero support in much of the country, that leaves us with the Bhuttos in a post-broken up Pakistan. Can we use the Bhuttos as poster-childs of Sindhi and/or non-Punjabi leadership of Pak? I don't think so. Benazir's first two governments were quickly dismissed and then she was assassinated when she returned from exile so it did not really end up well for her, did it? Her father met an equally sad and gruesome fate when he was hanged by a dictator. When Musharaff spared Nawaz and let him go to exile, there was more than a little murmur about whether the decision was made with the latter's ethnicity in mind. Perhaps if Nawaz drew bulk of his support from Sindh or Balochistan, Musharaff could have afforded to be a little more vengeful?

[quote]
... now the Argument of Army domination ..

of the 14-15 COAS's .... only two are/were Punjabi ... Asif Nawaz and now Kiyani ...
[/quote]

Sorry but that's just an attempt to sugar coat the dominance of Punjabis in army. The army comprises overwhelmingly of Punjabis. As does the establishment, the real movers and shakers of the country, and I don't mean that as compliment.

[quote]
about sacrifices...

there was no division of India... rather it was the division of Punjab and Bengal only .......so with present pakistan ..... ONLY Punjab was divided.
[/quote]

Punjab was in India so division of Punjab = division of India. Besides, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Hardly a "sacrifice."

[quote]
and i have been quoting these figures endlessly ... let me repeat again..

13-14 lac were killed during 1947 .... 10 lac of them were Punjabis .
14.2 Millions were forced to migrate .... 9.2 Million of them were Punjabis ... 3.2 Million of them were Bengalis .....then after Aug 47 ....... 1.2 Million Sinds educated middle class was forced to migrate..... now sum them up and figure out the rest ..
[/quote]

That's very sad. That said, most of the movement of people from Sindh, UP, Bihar, Bengals, etc was largely without bloodshed and was generally peaceful. If sadly Punjabis killed each other then the fault lies with them, on both sides, Sikh Punjabis and Muslim Punjabis alike. Outsiders cannot be blamed for what Punjabis did to each other.

[quote]
.... the reason is Punjabi 's intellectual own callousness , regarding it ... Punjabi does not speaks Punjabi ..rather he speaks urdu ...
[/quote]

No one is stopping Punjabi from speaking Punjabi and I am pretty sure it doesn't make an ounce of a difference to someone in Multan or Karachi or Gilgit or Gwadar or anywhere else what language Punjabis speak with each other. And for good reason too; it's none of someone else's business!

[quote]
from Iqbal to Faiz .... all great URDU names are Punjabi ..
[/quote]

Iqbal wrote long before Pak came to being and in Persian too. Faiz should have probably written in Punjabi but might have chosen Urdu for the same reason you are posting in English here instead of Punjabi or some other language: it has a larger audience so your words and thoughts can be understood and appreciated by a much wider audience. And they are. Faiz is still regarded as one of the most eminent poets of the country.

[quote]
... to me there are two three reasons for this ... Punjabis callousness... will discuss them if the debate turns into appropriate direction ...

... Bottom Line .... Punjab's shoulder was USED by other .... and the fault lies with the Punjabi
himself. ..... and Punjab and Punjabi has suffered the most ..... yet spin doctoring of history , hiding of facts , distortion of truths ,,....in short Murder of history ....did not allowed it to be highlighted .
[/quote]

That's a lot of dramatic rhetoric there. But more style than substance.

You know what the bottom line is? That there has been no shoulder to speak of, and people in other provinces or in Gilgit-Baltistan or in Azad Kashmir or even in South Punjab don't really care about the linguistic preferences of Punjabis. That's not what can fill their stomach, after all. What those people care about are things like equitable distribution of water, and a fair share of royalties of things like power generation or coal or natural gas production that belong to their provinces. What they care about is a sense of security and safety so they can run their businesses or realize their tourism potential or perhaps even protect their shrines or just go about their everyday lives without any risk of extremists disrupting their lives. What they want is the establishment to respect their leaders and not to plant parties or rig elections or to foster extremism in other parts of the country. That's the bottom line.

PS: No offence is intended to any Punjabi, who, like others, are mostly very nice people.

58

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan’s burden?

These articles are the efforts of opportunists’ politicians. What PPP as federal govt had done in that regard?
Taliban and Taliban sympathizers are from all over the Pakistan. Just because such reports are in mainstream media doesn’t mean KPK, rural Sindh, and Baluchistan are free of this factor.

How come Taliban could pass 20 check posts freely in KPK to attack DI khan jail?
I am sure you will either ignore my question or blame inelegance agencies.

59

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

Maybe they were given s safe passage? Strategic assets (like LEJ)?

60

Re: Should Punjab carry Pakistan's burden?

so another twisted answer, but actually blaminging the intelegance agencies.
Have you ever met any person in KPK?
I know several person, they all(except ANP) are against the war on terror.