Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Reason is democratic norms. We have muslims capable of becoming our prime minister, but U need votes to become Prime Minister. And when I pointed finger on Pakistan in this respect? Why this false charge on me????

Well muslims havent secured enough votes to become prime minister of India is a different issue, and ruling out a muslim to be prime minister of India is different. We must remain hopeful that one day a muslim leader with mass appeal can emerge and we can get our first muslim prime minister. BTW Manmohan Singh, our current PM is from minority community.

Anyways, if U are happy with current status of ur minorities, its okay.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Mere bhai, educated hindu youths have same problem U are referring to, but U know there is reservation in place for govt jobs for backward casts, it makes our job a bit tough.

And I never rule out discrimination, but U know it has become a trend to patronize someone who is from ur own community. Hindus do that I know, and I know someone else too do that, what U feel?

But U have really raised a valid issue which needs to be addressed.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

fir tolerance kiss baat me hain bhai?

tum yaar abhi hindus ki baat karo tumhare hisabse to muslims me har burai hai...

jab hindus itne achhe hai to musalmano ko job kyon nahi hai?

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Maybe same for U diwana sahib, but not all are like U and not all think like U. I know our job to convince U about our secularism is tough one. We need to have a muslim PM to prove to our Pakistani brothers that we are secular.

Can only pray ALLAH that we may be considered secular by U guys, but chances seems very dismal, our bad luck.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Tolerance hai is baat me ki aapko barabar ka haq mile.

Tolerance hai is baat me ki aap apne mazhab ki daawat jise chahe de payen.

Tolerance hai is baat me ki aapki pahoch se koi bhi job bahir nahin ho.

Aur bhi kafi baato me tolerance hai, dheere dheere aap samajh jayenge, ALLAH ke ghar der hai andher nahin.

Aakhir me main aapse Mafi chahta hoon ki main apne mulk me aapko khush nahin rakh saka, aapko aapke pasandeeda mulk jaisa ek mulk nahin de paya, uske liye aap mujhe bura bhala jo bhi chahe kah sakte hain. Ab jab hum galat hain to itna to sahan karna hi hoga.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Does India have it's own problems with minorities? Yes. Is it in the same league as Pakistan? Nope. Pakistan is leagues ahead. To deny that is just ignoring the problems.

Last point I would like to add is that 1+1 equals. 2 and 3 -1 always equals 2. If we wanted to get to two, we could use either method. The result is the same, but the means are totally different. If that's too zen for you, then you're just going to have to think hard about it until you understand the implications.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Yes equal freedom my dear, as Muslims can gather for Eid in eidgahs, Hindus can gather in temples, Christians in their churches. If Muslim can observe Urs of Data Saheb, Hindus can gather Hignlaj Matas temple.

If for you religious freedom is based on conversion, then why do people cry on propaganda of forced conversion by Muslims during their rule in India. If Muslims opted for forced conversion in absolute terms, they would have converted almost all the population over the long period of 8 centuries rule.

For Dr Abdus Salam issue, you may continue discussion in this thread, considering forums rules

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/435123-pakistan-s-unsung-genius.html
May I ask you a question as your Muslim brother? How do you see a Muslim converted to another religion? You may opt to skip this question, if you don’t want to answer.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

false charge? how? didn't you ask for this? didn't you call making a Hindu chief Justice of Supreme Court of Pakistan a joke? when you ask for something, you don't need to be defensive brother.

Yes, I'm not happy with the situation of minorities in Pakistan, but the offers and propaganda for them to transfer from Pakistan do play against my hopes. I'm of the view that we should promote harmony through presenting positive things existing in the society instead of crying all the times on some negative incidents.

To conclude, its never easy for people to leave their homeland irrespective of their religion affiliation. I can feel the trauma of Hindus leaving Sindh at the time of partition.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

You so funny!

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Brother, this is not equal freedom, I m sorry to say. I have already told U that equal freedom covers all aspects of one’s religious life. And U know very well that equal freedom is not there as U claim it to be.

My religious freedom is not based on conversions only bhai, it is based on propagation of one’s religion without any fear of persecution.

And I feel that muslims of this subcontinent should come out of their false notion that if U rule a nation, than U can do anything U like. This is not true. Muslim rulers in India were never in position to convert all or most of hindus to Islam, even by force. No one can do that. Even Indian army cant do that in Kashmir. So stop proving that muslim rulers were so Islamic that they never force anyone to convert.

fine.

U can ask me anything U want. The question U asked is a tricky one. I wont be happy if someone will leave Islam for any other religion, but I m not any authority to impose my view on anyone. Similarly, not anyone will like someone from his religion abandoning it. But when ALLAH has given us free will, than why we just cant leave this on the individual to decide which religion he want to choose? Forcefully denying anyone to propagate his religious belief is a kind of human right violation, isnt it?

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Allah gave us free will to convert and then specifically mentioned in Quran:

inna'd-deen 'inda'llah al-Islam." - Verily the way of life decreed by Allah is Islam

Isn't this conflicting for a Muslim?

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

I pointed a finger on Pakistan not for not having a minority president or PM, but for not giving equal rights to their minorities, which India grants to its religious minorities, equal political and religious rights. Anyone can understand that its not possible for a minority to head Pakistan for obvious reason of being a Muslim dominated nation. So I called this charge as false. U wrote the following.......

[QUOTE]
what is the reason behind this helplessness when your constitution allows so? Why can't Indian Muslim community produce a capable person for Prime Minister post. If its all about enough votes, then why are you pointing fingers on Pakistan in this respect.
[/QUOTE]

Yes I called it a joke to make someone responsible to take care of Islamic laws who even doesnt believes them to be authentic, ie from ALLAH HIMSELF. I still stand by my view, do U differ? Hope U have no reason to skip this question.

[QUOTE]
Yes, I'm not happy with the situation of minorities in Pakistan, but the offers and propaganda for them to transfer from Pakistan do play against my hopes. I'm of the view that we should promote harmony through presenting positive things existing in the society instead of crying all the times on some negative incidents.
[/QUOTE]

I honestly agree.

[QUOTE]
To conclude, its never easy for people to leave their homeland irrespective of their religion affiliation. I can feel the trauma of Hindus leaving Sindh at the time of partition.
[/QUOTE]

I agree.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

I still differ, our laws are not Islamic in totality. We don't force non-Muslims to follow Islamic law as to inheritance, marriage, etc. I'm not expert of Pakistani laws and therefore can't comment on the issue further, but I don't think that Rana Bhagwan Das being Hindu bar him to be CJ of Supreme Court of Pakistan.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Not conflicting at all brother, indeed ALLAH said that, but how can a muslim force anyone not to propagate his or her religion? Hasnt he commanded us against compulsion in religion too?

And what U are trying to prove? Muslims are free to propagate their religion to anyone at any place, and if someone stops them to do so, than he is committing atrocity. But when same muslim stops anyone from propagating his religion he is being kind?

Yes mere bhai, I can claim that only my religion is true. Similarly everyone claims that. How can we have dual standards in this regard? We cant go out and show everyone that see ALLAH has said that no religion will be accepted except islam, no one is going to believe us coz they are not believers.

I hope U understand this.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Difference of opinion, not a big deal.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

I'm referring to a majority Muslim country like Pakistan. Can you give me an example from history, where the Prophet and his companions allowed people to convert Muslims to other religion. What would you call them then?

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

How do you think the people of the area now constituting Pakistan were converted to Islam? Were the converted by force? Not related to the topic but just wondering.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

I never asked you to convince me something which is already so obvious that India is not a secular country.

Too bad if not all think like me. My bad luck. ;)

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

Persistent exclusion of Muslims in India | Analysis | Human rights

The Planning Commission’s India* Human Development Report 2011*, which came out recently, focuses on SC/STs and Muslims. But the report has not looked at social development holistically; rather it has focused on a few indicators like income poverty, education, employment, health and infrastructure, giving us only a partial picture of the status of these excluded communities. The findings can, however, be used to assess the quantitative impact of various flagship programmes meant for excluded groups.

As regards Muslims, though the report shows improvement on a few indicators, the increase has been marginal and rate of growth still much lower than for SC/STs. The situation is more or less the same as that articulated by the Sachar Committee report. There is a high concentration of Muslims in urban areas, making the incidence of poverty more visible there. According to the report, in 2007-08, 23.7% of Muslims in urban areas and 13.3% in rural areas, were poor. Compared to SC/STs and other social and religious groups, urban poverty is highest amongst Muslims, and rural poverty amongst Muslims is also higher than that of other religious groups and other backward classes (OBCs).

The rate of decline in poverty has also been the slowest among the Muslim community (from 1993-4 to 2007-8): urban poverty has only declined 1.7 points, whereas for the SC/ST community urban poverty has declined by 28.2 points and 19.5 points respectively.

We see a similar trend with literacy figures when we compare 2004-5 with the 2007-8 reference period of the report. Urban literacy in general (from 1999-2000 to 2007-8) has increased from 69.8% to 75.1% and rural literacy from 52.1% to 63.5%. However, if we compare the rate of increase of literacy amongst Muslims with other social and religious groups, it is the lowest. Urban literacy in the SC group has increased by 8.7 points and among the ST group by 8 points. Among Muslims, it has increased only by 5.3 points.
Likewise health indicators: the decrease in the under-5 mortality rate for Muslims between 1998-9 and 2005-6 is 12.7 points whereas it is 31.2 for SCs and 30.9 for STs.

Such a gap in the rate of decrease in poverty, illiteracy, infant mortality rate (IMR), etc, when compared to other social and religious groups, reiterates the Sachar Committee’s findings that the socio-economic status of the Muslim community is not improving at the same rate as other social and religious groups.

The Sachar Committee report of 2006 was the first of its kind with reference to the Muslim community. It revealed the extreme deprivation of Muslims in India and the low status the community has been relegated to, coupled with other exclusionary **situations of violence, insecurity, identity crisis, discrimination in the public sphere, suspicion from other communities, and being branded ‘unpatriotic’. **

Let us revisit the major findings of the Sachar Committee report – Muslims record the second highest incidence of poverty, with 31% of people below the poverty line, following SC/STs who are the most poor with a Head Count Ratio (HCR) of 35%. Not only was the literacy rate for Muslims far below the national average in 2001 but the rate of decline in illiteracy has also been much lower than among SC/STs. According to the Sachar Committee’s findings, 25% of Muslim children in the 6-14 age-group either never went to school or else dropped out at some stage.

**In no state of the country is the level of Muslim employment proportionate to their percentage in the population **-- in West Bengal where Muslims constitute 25% of the population, the representation in government jobs is as low as 4%. Not only do Muslims have a considerably lower representation in government jobs, including in public sector undertakings, compared to other excluded groups, Muslim participation in professional and management cadres in the private sector is also low. Their participation in security-related activities (for example in the police) is considerably lower than their population share at 4% overall. Other figures on Muslim representation in civil services, state public service commissions, railways, department of education, etc, are equally appalling.

A report by the Justice Ranganath Mishra Commission, which came out in 2007, further emphasised the deplorable condition of Muslims on socio-economic indicators and strengthened the findings, arguments and recommendations of the Sachar Committee report.

** These statistics show that Muslims have been denied equal participation in the development process (evident from poverty and discrimination indicators), have been denied fair and equal access to justice in the case of both targeted violence during communal riots as well as day-to-day identity-based discriminatory practices in accessing rights and entitlements.**

In this scenario, it is important to reflect on the response of the Indian state in addressing the exclusion and whether the human rights of this group are being protected within a strong policy and legal framework. It is also important to reflect on how Muslims use the democratic space being provided to India’s citizens by the Constitution to articulate their demands and defend their human rights.

Government’s response to socio-economic indicators for Muslims
1 Exclusion from development schemes and non-implementation of policy suggestions
Following the Sachar Committee report, the government launched its flagship programme – the Multi-Sectoral Development Programme (MSDP) – in 2008, aimed at upgrading infrastructure in 90 minority concentration districts (MCDs) spread over 20 states of India (1) where minorities comprise 25% or more of the population. These 90 MCDs have been identified throughout the country and are relatively backward, falling behind the national average in terms of indicators for socio-economic and basic amenities. Under the MSDP, district-specific plans focus on provision of better infrastructure for schools and secondary education, sanitation, pucca housing, drinking water and electric supply, besides beneficiary-oriented schemes to create income-generating activities.

**The exclusion of Muslims is evident in the planning, design and implementation of the Multi-Sectoral Development Programme. **The government has failed to make Muslims a target group and brought the scheme in under the larger umbrella of “minorities”, despite the findings and recommendations of the Sachar Committee report that the Muslim community needed targeted interventions to bring it socially and economically on a par with the mainstream…


Very secular indeed.

Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?

a propaganda against secular India :snooty: