Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
This is not a false propaganda, you can search news items attributed to Shabana Azmi and other high profile Indians and what they have to put up with due to their faith.
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
Giving a few examples here and there does not reflect what is going on with the majority of the people within that sect. let me flip this, Benazir was PM of Pakistan twice, Our NA speaker is a woman. Many women are ministers and member of parliament. Does that mean that there are no women related problems in our country. Think about the majority of people and how they are affected and try not to defend everything which is wrong in the country under the guise of nationalism.
Not a very good example ehsan sahib, sorry to say that.
Problem are there and will remain. Dalit issue and problems related to women issue are different.
What my brother pointed out was discrimination of dalits which was done by a large section of Indian society. Namely so called upper castes.
We needed to improve on that, and we did that. today any upper caste guy cant dare call a dalit in a derogatory manner, leave aside victimizing him or her. We have strong anti-discrimination laws in place in India. Even upper caste ppls have been victimized by dalits using this laws.
Bottom-line is that dalits are no longer being discriminated in India, apart from some stray incidents which needs to be addressed too.
Still we cant claim that we have eradicated such ppls who would victimize dalits, we have only placed restriction on them so that they cant be able to do this.
So drawing parallel between women holding high posts in Pakistan and dalits holding high posts in India is of no use.
It would have been better if U have told me that look, such and such christian, hindu, or Ahmadi minority is holding this high office in our nation and we dont discriminate among our citizens on religious grounds, which U are unable to claim and U know that very well.
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
Are bhai I told U na that this is not an issue which should be raised in this manner at all. Its so simple, and it goes both ways. Govt cant force anyone to rent out his or her property to the person he is not willing to. Muslims too do this, ie wont let their home on rent to non-muslims. why are u making this an issue? It happens, it is not good though, but still it happens, ppls like to live in ghettos these days.
Do U still feel it as a minority victimization?
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
Not a very good example ehsan sahib, sorry to say that.
Problem are there and will remain. Dalit issue and problems related to women issue are different.
What my brother pointed out was discrimination of dalits which was done by a large section of Indian society. Namely so called upper castes.
We needed to improve on that, and we did that. today any upper caste guy cant dare call a dalit in a derogatory manner, leave aside victimizing him or her. We have strong anti-discrimination laws in place in India. Even upper caste ppls have been victimized by dalits using this laws.
Bottom-line is that dalits are no longer being discriminated in India, apart from some stray incidents which needs to be addressed too.
Still we cant claim that we have eradicated such ppls who would victimize dalits, we have only placed restriction on them so that they cant be able to do this. So drawing parallel between women holding high posts in Pakistan and dalits holding high posts in India is of no use.
It would have been better if U have told me that look, such and such christian, hindu, or Ahmadi minority is holding this high office in our nation and we dont discriminate among our citizens on religious grounds, which U are unable to claim and U know that very well.
Talk is about discrimination and that is still rampant there against Dalits. You read about cases where a dalit wanted to marry a higher caste girl with fatal results. To say that is eradicated is deny the facts. The example of discrimination against women is relevant as we are talking about discrmination against a group of people.
You are sadly wrong when you talk about no discrmination in your so called secular country on religious grounds. If leading silver screen personailities cant buy a house in posh mumbai areas because they are muslims, what must be happening to ordinary muslims in that city. Our nation might not be tolerant at the moment but neither is yours, whether you like it or not that is the fact. recent tirade agaisnt Shah Rukh is another example.
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
Nobody is talking abt more than 50% reservation given to the dalits and other backward classes and minorities in all govt sectors including education in India...and this is obviously to lift them up.
And apart from the reservation quota, these guys can also compete in the remaining general quota depending on their academic performance.
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
Talk is about discrimination and that is still rampant there against Dalits. You read about cases where a dalit wanted to marry a higher caste girl with fatal results. To say that is eradicated is deny the facts. The example of discrimination against women is relevant as we are talking about discrmination against a group of people.
You are sadly wrong when you talk about no discrmination in your so called secular country on religious grounds. If leading silver screen personailities cant buy a house in posh mumbai areas because they are muslims, what must be happening to ordinary muslims in that city. Our nation might not be tolerant at the moment but neither is yours, whether you like it or not that is the fact. recent tirade agaisnt Shah Rukh is another example.
[QUOTE]
Talk is about discrimination and that is still rampant there against Dalits. You read about cases where a dalit wanted to marry a higher caste girl with fatal results. To say that is eradicated is deny the facts. The example of discrimination against women is relevant as we are talking about discrmination against a group of people.
[/QUOTE]
We too read about cases in which two teens from different communities, ie hindu and muslims wanted to marry but end up getting fatal results, same goes with each and every community in this subcontinent. U can deny that for a while, but U wont be able to hold on to that.
The example U brought out does not reflect discrimination on dalits but a social structure of our hypocrite society. And faces of both of us are.............leave it.
U can at the most stop shias or other minorities killlings in Pakistan, but can U really promote love marriages without fatal or heart-breaking results? I m not sure about that. U are missing something mere bhai. We are talking about discrimination, and if some dumb head go out to kill anyone who dare want to marry his daughter or sister, U cant term this as discrimination against any community. its so simple to understand, why u are facing problems understanding?
[QUOTE]
You are sadly wrong when you talk about no discrmination in your so called secular country on religious grounds. If leading silver screen personailities cant buy a house in posh mumbai areas because they are muslims, what must be happening to ordinary muslims in that city. Our nation might not be tolerant at the moment but neither is yours, whether you like it or not that is the fact. recent tirade agaisnt Shah Rukh is another example
[/QUOTE]
I dont say no discrimination, but I say less discrimination with sense of fear of law. Leading or not leading cine stars, no one can buy a home unless the owner is not willing to sell him or her, and it happens both ways if U dont know. We have ghettos in place, unfortunately though.
One ordinary muslim in on board with us who too cry discrimination against muslims in India. I have asked him many times to come up with something specific which happened to him or his near and dears or acquaintances, but he deny to speak up.
The main problem lies with U guys, when it comes to India, U keep dreaming of utopian nation with all angles residing there, which is not the fact. We too have our own share of bad guys just like U do, but the difference is, we are able to to keep them in check, while U are unable to do that till now.
Result is discrimination and victimization of minorities.
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
We too read about cases in which two teens from different communities, ie hindu and muslims wanted to marry but end up getting fatal results, same goes with each and every community in this subcontinent. U can deny that for a while, but U wont be able to hold on to that.
The example U brought out does not reflect discrimination on dalits but a social structure of our hypocrite society. And faces of both of us are.............leave it.
U can at the most stop shias or other minorities killlings in Pakistan, but can U really promote love marriages without fatal or heart-breaking results? I m not sure about that. U are missing something mere bhai. We are talking about discrimination, and if some dumb head go out to kill anyone who dare want to marry his daughter or sister, U cant term this as discrimination against any community. its so simple to understand, why u are facing problems understanding?
I dont say no discrimination, but I say less discrimination with sense of fear of law. Leading or not leading cine stars, no one can buy a home unless the owner is not willing to sell him or her, and it happens both ways if U dont know. We have ghettos in place, unfortunately though.
One ordinary muslim in on board with us who too cry discrimination against muslims in India. I have asked him many times to come up with something specific which happened to him or his near and dears or acquaintances, but he deny to speak up.
The main problem lies with U guys, when it comes to India, U keep dreaming of utopian nation with all angles residing there, which is not the fact. We too have our own share of bad guys just like U do, but the difference is, we are able to to keep them in check, while U are unable to do that till now.
Result is discrimination and victimization of minorities.
there are lot of examples man....
i dont need to share with you....
as you are excepting reported facts what credibility my personal experience have tell me...
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
there are lot of examples man....
i dont need to share with you....
as you are excepting reported facts what credibility my personal experience have tell me...
As U wish, but U are my witness, did I said anything objectionable to U? U remember one respected member of this forum was accused to be on indian payroll when he talked something in favor of India? And while U seems to be a fan of accuser, I never objected to any of ur comment, because we are in favor of freedom of speech.
I only asked U to come out specifically what make U so hopeless of ur nation? And become a fan of a nation which is anything but opposite to what our nation stands for, ie secularism, and equal rights to each and every of our citizen.
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
As U wish, but U are my witness, did I said anything objectionable to U? U remember one respected member of this forum was accused to be on indian payroll when he talked something in favor of India? And while U seems to be a fan of accuser, I never objected to any of ur comment, because we are in favor of freedom of speech.
I only asked U to come out specifically what make U so hopeless of ur nation? And become a fan of a nation which is anything but opposite to what our nation stands for, ie secularism, and equal rights to each and every of our citizen.
:D
you are keen on portraying muslim as savages and hindus as most civilized peoples on earth..and i object to that...thats all
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
I’ll cover this issue in separate post
Have you ever heard of Sadh belo of Sukkur. thousands of Hindus (including pilgrims from India) gather each year to celebrate the urs of Baba Bankhandi near Muslim majority city of Sukkur and RohRi
baba Bankhandi ram Sadho Bala sukkur Imran malik - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8bpNItsgr0)
Pilgrimage: Twice-born Hindu religious leader
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what do you call events like this being held in intolerant Pakistan?**
Every year thousands of Hindus from Pakistan and India gather to attend a four-day ritual at the Hinglaj Mata Temple in Balochistan.
Pilgrimage to Hinglaj Temple | Multimedia | DAWN.COM
Sikhs do not form a minor percentage of Pakistan, but Sikhs can travel and visit to Gurdwara Punja Sahib in Hasan Abdal
GURDWARA PUNJA SAHIB - HASSAN ABDAL (PAKISTAN …
These are few examples to let you know that how minorities can perform their religious duties in a country which is being portrayed a hell for minorities.
Have you heard of missionary schools in Pakistan? Islamilis networks in Gilgit? Christian missionaries working in Thar?
If there is no bar on a non-Muslim being on such position, thats a positive thing. call it joke or whatever.
Hindus and other minorities produced many prominent personalities in Pakistan and public appreciated their work without referring to their religious ideologies.
There are hundreds of Hindu doctors and surgeons in Sindh and people don’t avoid them for their being Hindu.
Deepak Parwani is the famous Hindu fashion designer in Karachi. People do visit his outlets to buy stuff from him.
There are many Hindu restaurants on super highway and national highway and Muslims go there to eat without feeling bad.
Do you whats the speciality of Hyderabd. Its cakes of Bombay bakery owned by a Hindu. If any Karachiite have friends and relatives in Hyderabad, they specially ask for these cakes prepared in a bakery owned a Hindu.
Have you heard of shikarpuri achar? The industry is dominantly run by Sindhi Hindus and achar is consumed all over Pakistan.
So there is no need to be shocked to know that we made a Hindu chief justice of Supreme Court of Pakistan.
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
:D
you are keen on portraying muslim as savages and hindus as most civilized peoples on earth..and i object to that...thats all
If U object to that only than relax, I m not the culprit. I only say things as it happens. HIndus are not most civilized ppls, but definitely most tolerant, our social structure proves that. our multiculturalism proves that. And no, muslims are not savages, I m a muslim too, muslims are as good as hindus, but when huddled together, most of them become intolerant guys, not to others only, but to themselves too. Do U disagree?
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
If U object to that only than relax, I m not the culprit. I only say things as it happens. HIndus are not most civilized ppls, but definitely most tolerant, our social structure proves that. our multiculturalism proves that. And no, muslims are not savages, I m a muslim too, muslims are as good as hindus, but when huddled together, most of them become intolerant guys, not to others only, but to themselves too. Do U disagree?
yes sir....
why dont you talk about brunei,turkey,malaysia,Indonesia these are all muslim nations and are quite tolerant.....
Pakistan is going through a rough time....
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
Very detailed answer…:k:
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
I’ll answer this, but let me ask you a few questions?
Considering Muslims being sizeable minority in India, how many muslim Prime Ministers India got? I’m not asking of Presidents
Muslim can become PM if he is capable: Rahul - Times Of India
**
Muslim can become PM of Pakistan, if he is capable. says Rahul Gandhi. So Mr Gandhi, why India failed to produce a capable Muslim to be PM of India over 66 years?**
How many countries in the world got state heads from minorities?
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
I dont say no discrimination, but I say less discrimination with sense of fear of law. Leading or not leading cine stars, no one can buy a home unless the owner is not willing to sell him or her, and it happens both ways if U dont know. We have ghettos in place, unfortunately though.
So you do agree that a form of apartheid is being practiced in your country even though you would like to couch it in different words. Explaining the way you do does not change ground realities. I suppose the same could have been said of white South African in days gone by that they didn't want to sell their homes to blacks so no one could force them. But there is a difference. when houses are for sale and Shabana Azmi goes to buy it and is told that no you cant buy the house in this locality than isn't that a sort of apartheid being practiced in the secular land.
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
**We should also discuss ...............
Should Pakistan welcome all Sunni Muslims from India who are not happy with the Indian state and want to leave India?**
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
Are bhai I told U na that this is not an issue which should be raised in this manner at all. Its so simple, and it goes both ways. Govt cant force anyone to rent out his or her property to the person he is not willing to. Muslims too do this, ie wont let their home on rent to non-muslims. why are u making this an issue? It happens, it is not good though, but still it happens, ppls like to live in ghettos these days.
Do U still feel it as a minority victimization?
Ghetoization is the result of the policies of Indians towards their minorities. Where ever you will have ghettos you will have issues. I met a muslim guy from Indian Gujarat, and according to him the muslims and lower caste people cant buy houses in upscale localities (and that Brahmans/Khashtris have their own exclusive neighborhoods), this was something different for me even in these worst and intolerant times in Pakistan. I have never seen segregated localities, if a Christian can afford he can buy a house house opposite to mine.
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
If you are telling me rights of indian muslims written in Indian constitution, then you are right. Me can also show you same rights written in constitution of many other counteries. Theory and practice are two differenct things.
Since you brought this up, does the law in Pakistan protect everyone equally, including Ahmedis, religious minorities AND ATHIESTS? If it does, then you have raised a good point.
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
very interesting articles.
my whole nanyaal is relocating to dubai by the end of this year as several family members have been killed, but even dubai is not a place for pakistani shias to reside in due to harsh restrictions on religious practices. i would personally prefer they move to india instead, that is the only place our *culture *will survive along with their lives.
say the Indian government permits these minorities, how will the public react?
Re: Should India welcome all Pakistani minorities who want to leave Pakistan?
Why even worry?
If someone wants to go and live in India, why should that person be stopped or criticized?
Whoever wants to live anywhere should be free to do so.
A whole lot of Indians and Pakistanis leave their country and live in another.