Should India be permanent member of OIC?

Why is India not made a permanent member of OIC. After all it has the second largest Muslim population in the world, after Indonesia !!

NEW DELHI NOV. 16. This is Gurbachan Singh’s story. It shows how India was first not invited, then invited and finally asked to stay away from the final session of the foundation of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) in Rabat, Morocco.

It was the September of 1969. Mr. Singh, then 46, was India’s Ambassador to Morocco and was sitting like any other Head of Mission at the opening meeting of the OIC on September 25, 1969. Today, the ramrod-straight former Ambassador is nearly 80. But his memory is sharp and he is able to give this correspondent a blow-by-blow account of what finally proved to be India’s non-entry into the OIC.

When the inaugural session ended, Mr. Singh returned to the Indian Embassy only to be telephoned by a Moroccan official, who said the then Moroccan Foreign Minister, Laraki, wanted to meet him immediately. Earlier, the OIC, whose formation was taking place in the backdrop of the arson at the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem on August 21, 1969, had decided not to invite India — a country with the world’s third largest Muslim population. ``It was a Pakistani trick that ensured that India did not meet the membership criterion of the meeting set at an organisational meeting which had Pakistan and Morocco as members,‘’ Mr. Singh recalled.

The criterion was simple: a member State must either have a Muslim majority or have a Muslim as Head of State. "President Zakir Hussain had passed away in 1969. And the Pakistanis knew that,‘’ Mr. Singh said. When Mr. Singh, responding to the phone call, reached the OIC venue, the Moroccan Foreign Minister was waiting outside the conference venue to receive him. Laraki told the envoy that King Faisal of Saudi Arabia had proposed, the King of Morocco had seconded, and all other participants had unanimously agreed that India should be invited to sit at the OIC table as a member. ``I obviously inquired whether Pakistan was part of the unanimous invitation. I was told that was the case,‘’ Mr. Singh said at his Kasturba Gandhi Marg residence this afternoon.

And then, without further ado, Mr. Singh was made the “acting leader” of the Indian delegation even though he had suggested that a visiting Indian Muslim academic take up the job pending the arrival of a full delegation from New Delhi. So, Mr. Singh, a turbaned Sikh, was the “acting leader” and Abdul Alim, then Vice-Chancellor of the Aligarh Muslim University, and Ishrat Aziz, Second Secretary at the Indian Embassy, were the other members of the Indian delegation. ``I addressed the OIC meeting at about 5 p.m. The Shah of Iran was seated next to me. I thanked all those present for the invitation and said, god willing, an Indian delegation would arrive to attend the Conference as soon as possible," he said. The next day, the then Agriculture Minister, Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed, arrived in Rabat at the head of an Indian delegation for the conference, and they were received with full protocol and honours by the Moroccan hosts. Like other delegations, they were provided a villa to stay.

Now started the real problem. The Pakistani President, Yahya Khan, who was attending the meeting, threw a fit and insisted that Indian participation was not on. So, what was the reason for Pakistan’s volte face?

“A number of messages had reached Yahya from Pakistan that if he sat at the same table as an Indian at an Islamic meeting he might as well not return home,” Mr. Singh recalled.

And then, the meeting was thrown into chaos. “Our delegation was treated well, but it could not attend the last session where some resolutions were passed,” he said. Even the minutes of the meeting were altered later to ensure that India was “absent” from the OIC proceedings. “But my enterprising Second Secretary (Ishrat Aziz) got a copy of the original minutes and we sent them to New Delhi. They must be lying somewhere in the archives.” But that was not the end of the story. Mr. Singh and his Indian colleague in Jordan were recalled to New Delhi to express New Delhi’s displeasure. He went back after a full four months.
Should India be a permanent member of OIC?

Why is India not made a permanent member of OIC. After all it has the second largest Muslim population in the world, after Indonesia !!

Is India a Muslim Majority nation? NO!

No matter what you say, blame Pakistan!

It was a Pakistani trick that ensured that India did not meet the membership criterion of the meeting set at an organisational meeting which had Pakistan and Morocco as members,'

But India has more Muslims than 50 other Islamic countries? Pakistan would be able to discuss Islamic issues with India at OIC meetings. After all Pakistan considers itself the guardian of all Muslims !!

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*Originally posted by durango: *
But India has more Muslims than 50 other Islamic countries?
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True! But the Govt. of India is mostly controlled by Hindus, not Muslims.

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Pakistan would be able to discuss Islamic issues with India at OIC meetings.
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Pakistan can do that as well without India being a member of OIC. Let me ask you two questions:

  1. Why Mr. Singh brought this up?

  2. Do you agree statement made by Singh about Pakistan's trick?

C'mon, Indian leaders shouldn't have gone that low.

[quote]
After all Pakistan considers itself the guardian of all Muslims !!
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Who told you that?

afterall india has the best muslim university in the islamic world.

India is not an muslim state-case closed.

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*Originally posted by rvikz: *
afterall india has the best muslim university in the islamic world.
[/QUOTE]

If I'm not wrong that University is in Cario, Egypt as well and rest of Muslim countries.

So much for general Knowledge. The best Islamic uni with the strongest history and foundation is Al-Azar in Cairo. It is right at the edge of the old city. Damn it hate when i forget the names of areas. The next is located in Baghdad. After that in Syria and i think one in Lebanon. As well as ones in Turkey and Iran. The indian one was created centuries later.

Now the way India goes about things…It seems to be the largest Muslim majority country. Which it is not.

Lets look at the CIA world fact book: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html
India’s population is 1 billion (exactly 1,045,845,226)
The muslim percentage by the CIA world factbook is 12 percent.
So 12 percent of 1 billion is?
120 million.

Pakistan is as follows: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/pk.html
Population is 140 million (exactly 147,663,429)
The muslim percentage is : 97 percent.
So the muslim population is above 140 million.
Which has a larger muslim population?

I can do the same for BD and INDO.
They will both have large muslim popyulations than India.
India is actually number 5 or 6 on the list. Not number 1.

Lastly if we allowed India in, we could allow in the US, the UK, heck any country that had a significant muslim population. And that is not what the OIC was created for. It was created for MUSLIM NATIONS. India is not a muslim nation. First your facts are wrong. Second your reasoning is illogical.

Case closed.

If india wants to join OIC let them!

The OIC is usless organisation they see masscres is in Bosnia OIC(oh i see) they see genocide in Chechnyna OIC(oh i see), they witness ethnic cleanising in palestine OIC(oh i see) , they watch as east timor is stripped from indonesia OIC(oh i see), they witness the bombings of iraq eveyday OIC(oh i see).

They see everything and do nothing india you want to join an impotent organistation go ahead they are useless organisation any way Organisation of impotent islamic conference :frusty2:

CM, Dont lie yaar - We always say we are second largest after Indonesia and we are Look at the following Link :-

http://www.islamicpopulation.com/

Indonesia - 181.37
India - 144.62
Pakistan - 140.65
B’Desh - 117.88

Really, Please do show us for BD from the CIA FACT BOOK, I also wanna see which CIA Fact book you are looking into. We always say we are second after Indonesia.

Is Indonesia an Islamic Country ?? Even your reasoning is wrong, so are your facts.

Is Turkey a member of OIC? Turkey is not an Islamic state. Like India it is secular.

Oh, I See!

Lie? Honestly you wouldnt know the truth if it came and bit you. Check the stats and check the maths. It is all logical and according to evidence provided by census. I can find a site that says india has killed 10,000 muslims in gujrat does that make the link right? Hell no.

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Really, Please do show us for BD from the CIA FACT BOOK, I also wanna see which CIA Fact book you are looking into. We always say we are second after Indonesia.
[/quote]

Check the links i provided above. I swear either we start getting smarter indians here or my skills will rust away. You are no challenge. You cant even check the links i provided.

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Is Indonesia an Islamic Country ?? Even your reasoning is wrong, so are your facts.
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Yes. The world accepts it. The Indonesians accept it. Having lived there for 4 years i can easily say that it is a muslim state.

Durango, Turkey has a 95% muslim population. They now have an Islamic Party in power. Thank Allah for that. Dont give a damn what the govt says. The whole world knows that Turkey is a muslim country where a couple of beer drinking hicks try to rule the country.

YAWN Next time guys do a better job, you dont want these skills to rust do you?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by durango: *
Is Turkey a member of OIC? Turkey is not an Islamic state. Like India it is secular.
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Turkey is an Islamic state as well. It just got elected Muslim PM :D

Yes Lie - You said :- “Now the way India goes about things…It seems to be the largest Muslim majority country. Which it is not” *
We never say that, We always say we are second largest after Indonesia. You also said * "I can do the same for BD and INDO.
They will both have large muslim popyulations than India.
India is actually number 5 or 6 on the list. Not number 1. "

When did we say we are no. 1 ? We always say we are no. 2 (after Indonesia). You say BD has a higher muslim population than India, which is another lie - Even if I consider CIA fact book.

I hope you are not implying that CIA had its own Census in Pakistan , Because according to CIA fact book (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...ok/geos/pk.html )
Population of Pakistan is 140 million (exactly 147,663,429)
The muslim percentage is : 97 percent.

According to Pak Govt :-
Population of Pakistan - 135.28 million
Ethnic composition 95% Muslims, 5% others

http://www.pak.gov.pk/public/country_profile_index.htm

You have no skills either - All you have is CIA fact book you couldn’t even read that properly before making big claims.

You can say whatever you want - It doesn’t change the fact that Indonesia is not a Muslim country.

So ??? Who says a country with 95% muslims cant remain secular ?? US has 85% Christians, but it doesn’t mean it is a Christian Country.

Just check OIC’s charter to see their membership criteria and see if India meets that criteria. End of story. Instead of going on and on about population figures.

The OIC charter says
**Every Muslim State is eligible to join the Islamic Conference on submitting an application expressing its desire and preparedness to adopt this Charter.
** Now does the Indian government consider India as a “Muslim State”? If India thinks it fufills this condition, then they should apply for membership. According to OIC charter it requires a 2/3rd majority, and each member state has a single vote. If 2/3rd members of OIC approve India, then they will be admitted as a member. Pakistan is just one member of OIC. Why blame Pakistan for lack of Indian acceptance in OIC by publishing the personal recollections of a conference which was held more than a quarter of century ago?

Faisal Bhai - I couldn't care less about OIC. To me its a useless organisation which has never done anything for Muslims. About OIC's Charter - Well It is as hypocratic as the organization itself. Please look into the members and find out how many secular countries are its members.

As far as India's relationship with OIC or its members is concerned - It is as good as Pakistan's (If not better).

Apparently, the OIC charter does not require its members to have Islamic majority populations. Sierra Leone and Gambia, with majority Christian populations, are members. In member countries such as Togo and Benin, Muslims comprise only about 10 percent of the population.

Thus, it would seem inconsistent to exclude India simply because it does not have a Muslim majority population. Must be something else, don’t you think?

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*Originally posted by myvoice: *
Thus, it would seem inconsistent to exclude India simply because it does not have a Muslim majority population. Must be something else, don’t you think?
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If India is really interested in becoming a member of OIC (something which I am not too sure anyway), the simple thing will be to apply for the membership and see how the member states vote on that application.

As some have suggested, India might consider OIC a 'useless organization' anyway, so what is all this fuss about?

The article which initiated this discussion talks about a former foreign service guy and his personal recollections. It doesn't give any evidence that India wants to become a member of OIC now, has applied for such a membership or that its membership is denied. All such organizations have procedures in place for such things. Merely relying on personal recollections of an 80-year old guy seems to be quite an inane discussion. Bring something new to the table.

I dont think India wants to be a member of OIC - If it wanted It would have got it by now. I was just arguing about the following Illogical, Ignorant and childish reasoning given by CM :-

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Lastly if we allowed India in, we could allow in the US, the UK, heck any country that had a significant muslim population. And that is not what the OIC was created for. It was created for MUSLIM NATIONS. India is not a muslim nation. First your facts are wrong. Second your reasoning is illogical.
Case closed.
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As an Indian, I wouldn't want my country to be associated with any group or organization which are created in the name of Religion.