Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

Lifestyle Relationships
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Okay, after all the thoughtful advice I got from you lovely Pakistanis ( :slight_smile: ) I decided to pose an even more important question to you.

This one is about my fiance himself and his connection to his family. (background, I’m gori and engaged to a Pakistani Canadian. He moved here as a teenager and now he is late 20s/early 30s (sorry have to be vague just in case his fam sees this)

What drew me to him originally was his family values etc. Once we started dating, his parents caught wind of it and freaked out. This freaking went on for almost a yr. During that time, he routinely cancelled plans with me at hte last minute because his parents were so demanding. I never complained because I felt like it would just add stress to him and didn’t want him to break. I thought that he’d appreciate my sanity and self sacrifice. I live alone in a new big city so when he wouldn’t show up for our dates etc, it was really heartbreaking. I’d sit at home and cry. Then he broke up with me citing that he couldn’t handle the drama on their end any more and that he was just too broken. We were apart 4 months and then he contacted me and wanted to get back together, saying that he couldn’t spend another single day without me. He promised me that we’d get married with or without his parents’approval. After a month of getting back together, he got kicked out of his house by his father due to our relationship. He moved to an apartment. A month after the apartment living started for him, he proposed to me. A couple weeks after proposing, he told his parents (he was still in contacgt with them) andhis mother started to seem to turn around. Both her and the father started begging him to move home and that he needed to do it to prove he loves them. Before geting engaged, we had decided to do the nikkah this sept to help send a message to his parents that we weren’t ending it. Our plan was to then to the proper wedding parties etc (receptio, walima etc) next spring and at that time, move in together. The spring will soon be here so I started loosely planning the wedding. A few days ago, he told me that he is moving back in to his parents home to send them a message that he isn’t deserting them. Once his mother started talking to him again, he started sleeping at their house on the weekends. Last weekend, we had plans to go to a masjid event together on Sat evening. He cancelled at the last minute. That really hurt and angered me. We ended up fighting about it. He seems to think it is acceptable to do that to me. When her told me that he is moving back home, he told me that he is reserving the right to continue this behavior (cancelling on me at hte last minute or just not making plans) because it is neccessary to prove to his parents that he loves them, isn’t changing because of me etc. He also told me that he will not even commit to the spring wedding any more and that though he won’t make me wait a long (he won’t define long) time, he won’t go ahead with the wedding without their approval.

I explained to him that I need to see him respecting me and the time we plan tto spend together before we’re married or else I cannot marry him. He basically said that I have to make a decision if I want to continue with him because “this is the way its going to be”.

In his defence, yes, he is still going through tons more crap than I am (on account of his parents). On the other hand though, for the first year, I whole heartedly and selflessly supported him trying to convince his parents. I’m now at the point though of not willing to invest much more emotion in to them. He is basically fighting for his own self- since I don’t care if they’re with us or not. I have amazing parents who will be amazing grand parents. This whole thing has been really hard on them but they have never once said they would disown me over it! I will be my sweet loving self to them but I have ZERO expectations for anything civil in return.

Am I being selfish? Should I just let them have him until we’re married? Do you think it will really change? He has promised that he will make me number one after we’re married but he has no history of having done that so I sadly am starting to doubt it… btw, he never was planning to live with them after marriage so luckily they know that it is him who wants his own house.

:frowning:

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

is the marriage definatly on?

Not sure what to say, has he asked you to convert. to be honest all the pakistani boys who dated goris tended to do it because they could. I felt bad for those girls who were being told that marriage would happen, but they had to convert first, get approval first etc.they would date for years and then suddenly the boy realises his parents wont accept. and he dumps the girl.

I fi was you, i would make sure theres a marriage. not just promises of one. make it formal, meet his mum and dad, get his act together.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

sorry to ask, but are u a convert Muslim?

if so the its better to fully trust ALLAH SWT. and ask any scholars about "Istakhara" (its a way asking ALLAH SWT what is right for us and what is not)

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

Zobia- not a full out convert (I haven't taken shahada) but I am working towards it. My fiance did istekhara and the sign was very clearly that his parents were leading him in to danger so not to follow them...

Nadz123- I am supposed to meet the parents for an iftar dinner in a couple weeks. I know that he has been trying very hard to push for that for a long time but they always refused... now that we're engaged, they have stopped harassing him when he comes to visit me (though it is very infrequent).

My concern is that if his parents accept me and he stops cancelling on me etc, then I will never know if he is a "fair weather" fiance only (ie I won't know if he would have put me first no matter what or if it is just something he does when it is convenient.

I by no means expect him to see me every day or anything. My expectation is an afternoon-evening on the weekend and one weeknight evening. His parents' expectations are that he spend almost the entire week with them and I get to see him for a couple hrs maybe once a week.

I really want him to be happy and have his parents and siblings behind him. I just don't feel right about allowing him to treat me so disposably. :( It makes me feel terrible. The problem is that when his parents get upset (and 95% of the time it is not justified), they go crazy daisy at him. When I get upset, I hide it most of the time if I think I am being unfair and if I do tell him, I do not yell and freak out. So I think, because I appear calmer, he thinks they are worse off so he soothes them. He always says that he cannot bear to see them cry... I'm like what about me?! I feel soo sad when he cancels on me. He says that he feels really sad and terrible to cancel on me in turn... which I believe but still... ugh I just dunno if there is a solution to this.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

I think its best if you tell us what happened at the Iftar and then get the opinion. Maybe they really have changed and started to slowly accept that you'll be their future DIL. You are putting so much time and effort into this whole Iftar thing. I am sure they'll love you and they won't have any issues with you marrying their son. Of course from desi parents' point of you, a very traditional one, its a bit different for your son/daugther to get married to a non-desi, non-muslim. I say give it time. Let him do what he is doing. He knows his family best. You keep doing what makes you happy and what you think will make them happy as your in-laws.
I've seen parents disapproving of someone before because of their culture, religion etc but once they see the other person putting so much effort and time on being part of them, they finally accept and love that person. So, like I said go to the Iftar and then if something unusal happens then you should be concerned. I am sure they are just as excited to have you over as you are to meeting them.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

Hmmm... so the wedding date is not set eh?

I think you need to stop meeting up with him and though I think breaking up is difficult, keep the contact to a minimum over like the phone and email.

I mean tone down your whole relationship with him to almost a platonic friendship.

Him breaking plans with you is not good. But he will keep doing that coz after all you are his GF and they are his parents. Of course he won't treat his wife that way (hopefully!)

You need to respect yourself so that he respects you. Which means, you need to show him that you're not just always around for him to take for granted. Work on your own life and keep busy with it.

About staying with him or leaving him - no one can advise you on that - that's something you need to search your heart and find the answer to.

And oh, I hope you're not converting to Islam just to marry him? :/ I think you should convert only if you're a true believer, coz else it will be difficult for you to follow the Islamic way of life in future, and it will, or could, create issues in your marriage too. Especially when you have kids.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

i understand that for desi parents it is hard to accept a gori daughter in law... but c'mon they have been living here since 70s... if you fiancé really loves you then he shud take a stand... and his parents will accept you too...

looks to me he is just playing around... i feel bad for you... but please dont let him do this to u....
if he had a desi fiance and he wud to cancel on her at the last min.... and that too so many times... i gurantee she wud've flipped on him too...

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

By the way, Islamically it is wrong for you and him to be meeting on "dates" coz really, you guys are not married yet. So technically, you shouldn't even be meeting. I know it sounds harsh to you, but that's how it is. I think your relationship will improve if you just keep it kind of platonic and even stop meeting up at all.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

Wait for the iftar , which you are invited to . See what kind of vibes you get from all sides then you decide or report back and we will help you decide.

I will tell a few things.
We desi kids have different psyche. We have very strong family bond we can never break it. We never grow up . We feel very guilty if we hurt our parents feelings in any shape , way or manner.
There are many reasons for this bonding. I will not go into details , because they are irrelevant here.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

No worries, I am not converting to Islam to appease him. After we broke up the first time, I continued learning about Islam. It was very freeing because I didn't think he and I would be getting back together so I was able to confidently know that I was studying it for my own self :)

I know that he truly loves me. I've prayed long and hard to be given guidance on that. I know in my heart that he truly wants to marry me and plans on it - hence proposing to me. He just has his parents looming over him like a rain cloud that won't go away and he for some reason is too scared to open up an umbrella to shield himself from their rain.

I think that it makes sense what Aunty said about reducing time spent together etc. He needs to miss me a bit and see that I am not a dispensable girl. I know he honestly doens't think of me as dispensable but I do not want him to continue to develop bad habits that may continue after marriage. I also do not want to be harboring resentment or sadness after my wedding due to how he had treated me in the past.

Thanks.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

I can understand the turmoil he's going through. It's very hard for Pakistani parents to have confidence in relationships that aren't the normal trend. It's not you, but their son they are doubting. It's a heavy burden on him and being the nice son that he is, he feels it's his responsibility to assure them that he isn't abandoning his family, just adding on another member. The process can be very frustrating and the after effects are long and strenous. My advice to you would be to not doubt his sincerity but look deep into yourself and try to find out of you are ready for a rough and rocky road. Marriage isn't going to solve any issues but bring to light another set of issues such as proving yourself to the family, etc...

Is it worth of all of that? Only you can answer that question.

One more thing, don't put yourself in a position to be identified as number 1 or number 2 in his life. That will be very stressful and unfair to him. You will earn your respect and place in his family. Remember, a wife cannot replace the parents, and the parents cannot replace the wife, so there should be no competition, no testing.

Go to the iftaar with an open mind and a open heart. You'll get better answers after that.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

Mirch- I know about the desi family bond. It is admirably strong. I have that same family bond. I feel huge guilt if I do anything that my parents even slightly do not like. The difference between his parents and mine is that my parents do not abuse this guilt. His parents are very selfish and think only about their own happiness not that of their children (so many examples I could give). My parents on the other hand, do not hold me back from things that they know ultimately are best for me.

My mum once put it like this "I do not own you. God gave you to me as a gift for a time. He trusted me to raise you and love and nuture you. So even if I feel sad that you're moving to Europe for a year (for example) and I really want to keep you at home all for myself, I am going to let you go and learn about life and continue to grow, because keeping you here would stunt your growth and I have no right to do that."

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

sure it's hard on him, but what does that have to do with his making and cancelling plans with you? a man who doesn't treat you with respect before marriage is unlikely to treat you with respect after.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

yups thats the main point!!!!

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

I'm not defending him but this is what he told me when I said the exact same thing to him.

He said: "I'm not cancelling you and going out with my friends and having a good time. I'm stuck at home feeling bad about cancelling on you, bad because my parents are yelling at me, guilty to have caused them to yell at me etc. I want nothing more than to be with you and married right now but these things take time. etc etc"

What can I say back?

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

Go to that Iftaar , meet and greet with them , open up to them and let us see what happens. You have not observed them in close proximity and do not know why they are/were against this marriage. You can even be upfront and ask directly why they are/were against this marriage and get your answer. But I would not do that in first meeting unless I see an air of negativity around me in that iftar.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

Today its the small date plans, tomorrow it might be something big, he said he'll go through the nikkah , then he backed out......either he doesnt plan things thoughtfully or he is not strong enough to keep a balance between you & his parents

go to the iftar & see how things turn out...... & after that do decide about your future coz he seems to me the type who will keep lingering this situation...........

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

I think you should go to this iftaar with an open mind and see how it goes.

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

astrology..match ur day and time of birth compatibility.. its scarily accurate ..

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Re: Should I trust him or am walking in to a future divorce?

Its great that he has family values...but do you think these REALLY are 'values'?..(Example:

...All I can tell you is, do NOT let him come to you only at HIS convenience, bc i can assure you if you are letting him get by with it right now, he will be used to this for the rest of his life, not to mention, his family also. They will kind of 'expect' him to put you on the back burner, and no girl, esp no girl who is as committed and concerned as you, deserves that.

I agree with Aunty on:

In the 'few hrs' of the week he wants to come meet you, tell him you cant make it or have other plans. You must take stand for yourself. Paki family's have an 'admirable' bond, but only to the limit of with their 'own' children..esp when the time of marriage comes around. From what you seem like, I dont think you are the type of girl to do this, but, I think its time you must start to keep him on his toes.

And if he tries to tell you that you arent committed or such bc you arent meeting him in the 'few hrs' he can come see you, (esp by gaining your sympathy and using excuses of 'family values' in his defense) then, my friend, i think you should know your answer.

But nonetheless, DO go to the iftar, see and meet the family for yourself, and discretely observe his behavior along with his parents behavior around you as well. THAT should give you a good feel of how things are and will be.

G'luck! :)