HEY GUYS HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE SHIA AND SUNNI
?
Both are Muslims, followers of the word from Allah(SWT)
Although I won’t give a religous answer to your question (others will probably better explain it) speaking as a Sunni I regard Shia’ just as much Muslims as Sunni’s and they are equally our brothers and sisters.
P.S. I don’t have any time for bigoted attitudes towards Shia’s
What is the point in starting this thread…
Shia and Sunnis are two faces of the same coin called “Islam”…
Sunni is a muslim who calls himslef a sunni
and shia is a muslim who calls himself shia
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/biggrin.gif
nahi bhai i m just tring to figure out ,
what is the thing that define them apart..
thats all
i know they both belong to islam
MEHAK : A piece of friendly advice : Do not fall in this trap(worm hole) of defining the 2. Shia or Sunni or any other sect , prey to Allah(SWT) for guidance for yourself and for us all.
Alhamdulillah,
Shi'ah are well known as the Raafidah, they have many false beliefs and fabricated hadiths and they have adopted it part of their religion.
Great Scholars of Islam have said what Shia'hs are:
Imaam ash-Shaafi
eeee said concerning the Shi
On one occasion ash-Shaafiites, "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Raafidite Shiites." [Ibn Taymeeyah, Minhaaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah, 1/39] On another occasion he said, "Narrate knowledge from everyone you meet except the Raafidite Shi`ites, because they invent Hadeeths and adopt them as part of their religion." [Ibid, p. 38]Imaam Abu Haneefah
It was reported that often Abu Haneefah used to repeat the following statement about the Shi`ites, "Whoever doubts whether they are disbelievers has himself committed disbelief."Imaam Maalik
Once Maalik was asked about them and he replied, "Do not speak to them nor narrate from them, for surely they are liars." [Minhaaj as-Sunnah, 1/37] During a class of Imaam Maalik, it was mentioned that the Raafidite Shi`ites curse the Sahaabah. In reply, he quoted the Quranic verse, "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and those with him are harsh with the disbelievers and gdntle among themselves. So that the disbelievers may become enraged with them." He then said, "Whoever becomes enraged when the Sahaabah are mentioned is one about whom the verse speaks." [Tafseeer al-Qurtubee, Soorah al-Fath; Editor’s note: That is, anyone who is enraged by the mention of the Sahaabah is a disbeliever, because the verse says, "the disbelievers may become enraged with them (Sahaabah)."]
They (Shi'ahs) have many bid'ahs, innovations in their religion. They associate others in worship with Allah by seeking help from 'Ali and al-Husayn (RA). They believe that the 12 Imams have knowledge of the Unseen.
Allah SWT says in the Qur'an:
"Allah burdens not a person beyond his scope"
They curse the great Companions of the Prophet SAW. They seek help from those that are dead and buried instead of Allah SWT. They are among the Mushrikeen (those that associate others in worship with Allah SWT).
Infact, it is duty on the Sunni to tell the Shia'hs to come to the path of Islam. And if they do not listen and do their worship in public (maatham), the Sunnis must do Jihad against the Shia'hs. If they cannot wage Jihad, then they shall do anything in their means to bring Islam to the Shi'ah and stop them from their evil ways of worshipping. And Allah SWT is the All-Knowing. May He guide and keep all of us on the siraat al-mustaqeem. Ameen.
thats all baseless crap against shias!!!they are as much moslem if not better then sunnis
[This message has been edited by ramesha (edited July 23, 2000).]
We come a full circle!
Zachariyah:
1) Could you provide the link to the source of your quotations?
2) Do the sunnis practise the religion of Allah or, the Religion of Bukhari & Co?
3) Do the sunnis commit SHIRK everyday by following Sunnah attributed to the Prophet(s) by Bukhari & Co which makes prophet Muhammed(saw) a Partner of Allah?
I presume you have already read the thread:THE STATUS OF SUNNAH IN ISLAM! and are in a position to respond.
[This message has been edited by faceup (edited July 23, 2000).]
Faceup, what is your problem with Sunnah and Bukhari shareef? If you don't beleive on both then it is okay, but you don't have an exclusive right to say against Sunnah and Bukhari.
mansoor
yaar, I said Bukhari & Co - meaning all those who tinker with sunnahs!
So, what do you think:
1)Isn't following that Sunnah a SHIRK?
2) Since Sunni Islam and, 'goomrah' sects like wahabi, deobandis are based on Sunnah, proved to be lies & fabrications, and Sunnahs deviate from the Quran makes the aqeedah of Sunnis full of bida'h & innovations.
3) If above #1 & 2 is true then where does that leave Sunni Islam?
All I can say your case is "may na maanoo"
May Allah put you on right path. Aameen
(Note from Admin: faceup, stick to the subject or refrain from saying anything at all.)
Zackariah,
buddy, I shall wait for your response to above questiones outlined to mansoor & yourself. Consult your alim or better yet bring him to gupShup. I want to see if your alims can defend the legs on which your sunni taqlids stands.
[This message has been edited by Admin (edited July 23, 2000).]
faceup,
Isn't following that Sunnah a SHIRK?<<
no yaar, it's an obligation. do you know who Bukhari was. Read his life story and you'll find out the effort he put in and why he is praised by 1 billion muslims all over the world. Anyway who told you it was shirk to follow sunnah. It wasn't Mr. Khalifa was it. Well you see what he was trying to do was achieve the fame that Imaam Bukhari had but without the effort. So he took a shortcut and it backfired, so he ended with a bunch of losers as his followers limited to certain places in the USA. So you can attack Bukhari & Co as much as you want, but Mr. Khalifa will NEVER achieve their status & fame. do you not what the word 'jealous' means?Since Sunni Islam and, 'goomrah' sects like wahabi, deobandis are based on Sunnah, proved to be lies & fabrications, and Sunnahs deviate from the Quran makes the aqeedah of Sunnis full of bida'h & innovations.<<
Have they really been proven to be lies & fabrications. Yes, this is what Rashad Khalifa claimed in his second so-called 'Authorized'(he claimed Allah had ordered to him to do this translation) translation of the Qur'an. But you see the only bookshops selling this translation of the Qur'an are the ones who were selling the SATANIC VERSES of Salman Rushdie. What is common between the two? They both attacked and abused the Sunnah. (I'm not saying Rashad Khalifa in anyway agreed with Salman Rushdie but just highlighting one similarity).If above #1 & 2 is true then where does that leave Sunni Islam<<
that's "if" both were true, but they are false.
Mansoor/Salafi,
For substantiations, I suggest you re-read the threads:THE STATUS OF SUNNAH..! and, THE BOOK OF HOLY IGNORANCE.
If you cannot answer the Questions posed to mansoor & zakariya what does that make the followers of Sunnah?
As far as the Wahabi/Deobandi goes, that has already been decided by the main sunni body or Ahl as Sunnah Jamaat.
faceup,
who/what is your religious authority?
Ahmad Deedat has some very Good word on Shia-sunni unity… http://www.iec-houston.org/deedat.html
few quotes for those who dont want to read through the lengthy speech..
1.You know, between the four Sunni mazhabs the Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki and Shafei there are over two hundred differences in salat alone. Did you know that? Two hundred. But we take it for granted. The Shafei says amin loudly and we say it silently, they say bismillah loudly we say it silently and there is there is no problem. As a child my father would repeat the famous formula that he in turn learned from his father. : "all the mazhabs are equally valid and the truth for them is in the hadith and the Quran." And so we accept it. When it comes to the Shafei, Hanbali, Hanafi and Maliki we are tolerant but when it comes to the Shia you see he is not in the formula that we are taught as a child, so what ever little idiosyncrasies there exists between us and them we cant tolerate and reject we say that he is out because we are programmed to believe in only the four. But we accept the idiosyncrasies between the four. I say why can't you accept the Shia brothers as a fifth madhab. And the astonishing thing is that he is telling you that he wants to be one with you. He is not talking about being Shia. He is shouting "there is no Sunni nor Shia there is one thing, Islam." But we say to them "no you are different you are Shia." This attitude is a sickness of the devil. He wants to divide us. Can you imagine we Sunnis are 90% of the Muslim world and the ten percent who are Shias want to be partners and brothers with you in faith and the 90% are terrified? I cant understand why should you the 90% be so terrified. They should be the ones terrified.
2.The Shia brothers when they make salat, they have a piece of clay (turbah) that they do sajjdah on. And he (sunni)says, "see what they are doing here. This is shirk. They are worshipping a piece of clay. " I said why don't you ask them why they place their foreheads on a piece of clay and learn the logic behind this. You see, the first time I experienced this was in Washington D.C., the Iranian students there had invited me to give a lecture there at the university where they were studying in America. At that time, it was time for Isha and we made salat. And everyone was given a piece of clay. I at the time thought it was so funny, so I put it aside and I made my salat with the Iranian students. And after salat I wanted to know about this and I asked them. Why do you carry this clay tablet everywhere you go in your pocket? They said " we are supposed to do sujood on Allah's earth with our foreheads touching the earth. We say "subhanna rabia Allah" three times with our foreheads touching the earth." So the Shia want to actually touch the earth with their foreheads and not a manmade carpet. They want to be true to the expression of praying with the forehead actually touching Allah's earth. You see they don't worship the clay tablet as many wrongly think.
3.I came across an alim from Pakistan Mauna Sahib and he thought that there was something wrong with our Shia brothers. You see in Iran when someone is lecturing and the name Khomeini is mentioned people stop and everyone says durood on the Prophet(S) three times. But when the name Mohammad is mentioned they send durood once. And this alim from Pakistan says, " look at these people just look at them. What kind of Muslims are these people. When the name Mohammad is mentioned they send durood on the Prophet(s) once but when the name Khomeini is mentioned they send Durood on KHOMEINI three times." I said " What do they say , what do they say in this so called 'durood on Khomeini'. " He said: Peace be upon Mohammad and the family of Mohammad. I said, " Who is Mohammad? Khomeini? Who named Khomeini as Mohammad? Their durood is on Prophet Mohammad(s) and you say it is on Khomeini."
- "They (shias) want to clean the stables and make preparations for the Mahdi to come. In the Sunni world we are also waiting for the Mahdi to come but we want him to clean the stables for us, make us masters of the world and to make us sit on the thrones. The Sunni world is just passively waiting. Until then we can carry on with all our petty little squabbles, whatever we are carrying on now. And it is only the Imam Mahdi which can clean the world for us. This is the Sunni line of thinking. Khomeini on the other hand tells his followers that we must help prepare the way so that when he does come everything is already set up for him to act on. While we, the Sunni world are waiting for Imam Mahdi to pull the chestnut out of the fire for us, the Shias are preparing the world for his arrival."
great post!
Informational post there pukka desi bhai....